Are Vietnamese Restaurant Empires Possible?

I'm in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, for a few book-related events this week. Yesterday, I cooked with the folks at Lantern, a nationally acclaimed restaurant that's been featured in publications such as Gourmet and Saveur. Chef/owner Andrea Reusing's smart, local, sustainable take on Asian cooking is a model for such types of restaurants all over. I met a local farmer who delivered her luscious lettuces and leafy greens, the shrimp were from Georgia and the crab were lively blue crabs full of roe and tomalley.

Our sold-out dinner for 60 (ahem, that's 1 seating folks) with Spanish sherry and wine pairings by Andre Tamers of De Maison Selections went exceptionally well because Andrea has an amazing, tight staff. Theirs is a small operation and the kitchen is comfortable, not huge, just right. Restaurant cooking is teamwork and you laugh while prepping and picking a good 50 pounds of blue crab and you holler and follow orders like as if you're in a battle zone once service begins.

A good restaurant experience is at core about the food, but also about the management, kitchen staff and the wait staff, who know to bring out the food at the right moment, and to pace things for diners. Guests at a restaurant have no clue what goes on behind those waving kitchen doors because they're great sound insulators. But lots of conversation and strategic management goes into a fabulous meal. At the end of the day, dining at this caliber nurtures the belly and soul and entertains on many levels too.

So as a restaurateur, can you replicate that in other locales for the sake of making more money? Or do you stick to your roots and make good food for your community?

Alice Waters doesn't want cookie-cutter Chez Panisses. Andrea Reusing, who has a family, doesn't have designs on expanding to other cities with mini Lanterns. Charles Phan has Slanted Door and takeout versions called Out the Door -- all in San Francisco. Sophie and Eric Banh of Monsoon happily succeed and are satisfied with their eateries in Seattle. David Chang keeps his Momofukus tight and small in Manhattan.

In our little Vietnamese food and restaurant world, we have Michael Bao Huynh -- a Saigon native who's had restaurants in New York City (Bao 111, Bao Noodles, Mai House), Los Angeles, and the latest is in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. I'd read that he was looking into opening in Saigon too. Most chefs stay in their cities (e.g. Joachim Splichal) while others with well-honed management teams go domestic (e.g. Wolfgang Puck and Tom Colicchio). But going international is another level of ambition altogether.

You can't be all over the place to keep quality and standards up. Many things can go wrong on a regular moment-by-moment basis in a restaurant. HOWEVER, demand for Vietnamese food is so high these days that someone has to fill the void.

With exception to Pho 24 from Vietnam, which serves a tiny limited menu dedicated to you know what, I've not been to a [good] successful Vietnamese chain restaurant. Is that possible? What do you think that takes? Let me know your thoughts...

Comments

[william]

I know of a few successful Viet franchises. Being Viet myself and lucky enough to live in Los Angeles/Orange County, I frequent several of them.

First on my list is the Viet fast food chain called Lee's Sandwiches, http://www.leessandwiches.com/. They serve up a really tasty sandwich made on their own crunchy baguette. Rumor has it that they started as a catering truck in San Jose, they now have locations in Oklahoma and Texas as well numerous locations in California.

In the pho arena there are several contenders and at least one qualifier which is Pho Hoa, http://www.phohoa.com/. Check out the store locator, them's a lot of locations and it's a global franchise to boot! I haven't eaten there in awhile because I prefer Pho 79 which, for a pho restaurant, has paltry um-empire like six locations.

If you're into 7 courses of beef, Bo 7 Mon, there's Anh Hong. Although they have just six locations as of 2002, I think the fact that they have six restaurants and serve a unique specialty fare warrants some recognition.

That's a small list and there's probably a lot more and plenty up and comers, so I'll have to keep my eye out.

[Andrea Nguyen]

William, you're right. I'd not included and neglected Lee's and Pho Hoa because they're places that I don't frequent much because they're okay, not great, in my opinion. I suppose you may agree since you go to Pho 79. On the other hand, Pho 24, based in Vietnam and with outlets in the major Viet cities and a few cities in Asia, charges about double for a bowl of pho (compared to a place for nguoi binh dan lao dong -- your average laborer/working person). But a bowl of pho from Pho 24 is admittedly quite good. I went reluctantly at first but was surprised.

[Joel]

In New Zealand there is a chain named Hansan Vietnamese Restaurant in Auckland. The owners are Cambodian refugees and two of the shops are their own while a third one is a franchise: http://www.dineout.co.nz/restaurant.php?rest=1600&Restaurant=Hansan_Vietnam_Restaurant

I recall that there was a very renowned pho chain (I think we went to Pho Pasteur) in Boston when I went to visit my brother in the US back in 2000. We ate at their flagship outlet that was more Asian in layout. The other ones, from the look outside, has a more upmarket feel. The pho was quite good - although the amount of herbs served was a lot more than the ones I was used to in New Zealand.

[Foodie_H]

With all due respect, Michael Huynh doesn't really keep to his own roots, so to speak. If you've tried Mai House at all, you'll know it's not really vietnamese food. I don't think of him or his restaurant whenever I think of vietnamese food. The essence of Vietnamese food is in the local, the humbleness, and the authentic quality. Just b/c MH was born in Saigon does not mean he has created all three qualities in his restaurants.

That being said, the one thing that makes Vietnamese food so great is the heart and soul put into the food by the creator - the chef. Each chef has their own uniqueness put into the food (although you can argue that with any food). Having a chain takes away that soulfulness. Chain food is not real food.

[Robyn]

If Hubert Keller can do it why not a Vietnamese chef? You could argue that Per Se and French Laundry don't exactly count as a 'chain' but they are 'of' the same chef and on opposite coasts (I've not dined at either).
Or, if Pho 24 could do it, why not another chain - though the secret to their success may be the concentration on one dish and its variations.

I just spent a day cooking in a professional kitchen as research for an article and, like you, I was struck by how much a real esprit de corps in the kitchen and beyond affects the customer's overall experience (I was also struck by how much my legs hurt at the end of my shift). I think a chef or restaurant owner who's dedicated to maintaining that AND to the quality of what goes on the plate or in the bowl can run a chain that serves good food. The problem with most chains is that management is more concerned with expanding the name to make a buck rather than expanding the name to introduce more people to really great food.

[Simon Bao]

I have to take exception to some of Foodie_H's remarks. I have not been to Mai House and can't pass judgment on the quality of the food - and having seen Mai House's "Chef Spike" make bad goi cuon, I'm keeping a skeptical but open mind about it.

But I'm familiar with the menu at Mai House and I do believe that is Vietnamese food. Certainly not "Your Mother's Viet Food." But it is recognizably Vietnamese food. It is simply a menu that offers the dishes that make sense in an upscale Tribeca "dining loung," rather than in a generic "Saigon Garden" eatery in the local Viet mini-mall. (We all know the place, high noise levels and harsh, overhead fluorescent lighting...)

I'd not want to define what is "the essence of Vietnamese food," but the word "local" probably wouldn't apply. Unless one is in Vietnam, there's nothing local about the cuisine, or most ingredients and seasonings.

I'm sure that "humbleness" doesn't apply. Vietnamese cuisine is too expansive to be humble. It's the cuisine of paddy peasants and mountain folk, of contemporary urban elites. The refined and elegant and un-humble cuisine of centuries of prosperous traders and merchants and land-owners. The cuisine of the wealthy collaborating classes throughout the centuries. Every mandarin, feudal lord, royal household and imperial court were all digging their haute Vietnamese cuisines. For every King Hung Vuong who praised the humbleness of the earth cake, there were probably many Emperor Tu Duc types, with 50 imperial chefs each preparing some new dish every night.

It's just too expansive a cuisine to say its essence is humbleness.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Love that we're all thinking straight and keeping to our opinionated selves. I've only sampled Bao 111's food at an industry conference and agree with Simon that it's recognizably Vietnamese food. However, it wasn't flavorful food.

What I'm hearing is that Mai House,etc. doesn't offer food to folks that says, "I'm Vietnamese!" That's fine, but if a chef/restaurateur is banking on offering the public Vietnamese food, then the food should scream (or squeak?) that it's Viet. At a certain price point, it should be good too.

With exception to Japanese restaurants, there's for people to think that Asian cuisines is one of tiny, inexpensive modest mom-and-pop operations. Granted, we all love those kinds of joints but in Vietnam as elsewhere in Asia, there are different levels of dining -- the open the garage door type of spot that spills out onto the sidewalk and you sit on baby plastic chairs; the ones that have actual doors that you step into and close, the market place, the street vendor, the tablecloth restaurants there servers fall all over themselves to make sure no ice cube goes unmelted.

If we think that Asian food should be bargain-basement good, then chefs/restaurateurs will keep making it in cheap manners -- cutting corners, using poor ingredients, not caring as much as they should or may want to. How can we elevate Asian cuisines to a level where they get the kind of respect they deserve?

[Simon Bao]

Andrea, to me there's always something a little *comical* about any restaurant offering "Vietnamese cuisine" where the centerpiece of the dining experience isn't rice. Either bowls of steamed rice or rice noodles or other noodles.

If one is looking for the essence or heart of Viet cuisine, start there. Start with rice. "An com." Rice is to Viet cuisine precisely what bread once was to all the European and Middle Eastern cuisines. Sure, today when one talks about French cuisine one can talk for hours before bread even gets mentioned. But there was a time when bread was The Be All And End All of French cuisine and royals, nobles and others lost their heads over it. Today, it's the predicted rice shortages that terrify governments and regimes and People's Central Committees.

But I do not seriously expect a restaurant such as Mai House to starch up their customers with rice, the way Vietnamese eat food at home. Part of what I think I see chefs doing is work to liberate Vietnamese dishes from the chains that bind them to rice. Reinvent them so they're not merely the conventional accessory to bowls of steaming rice, but can also be served as outstanding stand-alone dishes.

I have a hunch that a single customer serving of Mai House's Crispy Arctic Char with Street Style Corn might feed a Vietnamese family of 5, dining the conventional way on rice and sharing the fish. And it may not scream Vietnamese to serve the dish as a stand-alone entree without those rice bowls. But doing that doesn't diminish the cuisine or harm it, simply adds to it. Which is necessary in new times and new places.

[Simon Bao]

Andrea, I haven't thought this through yet but... a chain or empire of excellent Vietnamese restaurants may face an additional challenge that isn't faced by others.

Let me use Tom Colicchio and his chain of "Craft" restaurants as an example. Though one could just as easily use The Empire of Emeril or Next Week's Next Bobby Flay restaurant as examples. When an American chef/restauranteur wants to expand and create a chain, she/he can usually count on a big giant pool of chef talent to draw from. Chefs who have not only worked in similar restaurants, but who have gone through some respectable training in Culinary Institute of America (CIA) type schools. The incoming employees are chefs and cooks already schooled in the necessary techniques, flavor profiles, ingredients, the basic dishes, ideas like pairing dishes with wine/beer, etc. And if a chef was trained primarily in French cuisine, it's still no great leap to switch and take up Italian or American.

Colicchio and Emeril and Flay don't have to worry about where the trained talent they need will come from, it's already out there.

But, if you are a chef/restauranteur aspiring to expand an empire of Vietnamese restaurants, you have a challenge. You will have lots of potential Vietnamese staff, with *many* of the skills and *some* of the knowledge you require to operate a successful new location. But NOT with all of what you require.

You will have lots of potential non-Vietnamese staff, CIA-trained and with extensive knowledge and experience - in cuisines that aren't remotely related to Vietnamese. Hire them, and you may end up with Spike Mendelsohn's sad little goi cuon on your plate.

It's possible to find a few young VietnAmerican chefs who both know the cuisine and have been trained in CIA schools, people who are educated and skilled in the techniques and technologies and logics of cooking. Hung Huynh and Sara Nguyen come to mind as examples. Yet neither of those has any interest in cooking Vietnamese.

There are other problems that plague the expanding Restaurant Empires, but assembling all the right talent one needs might be extra difficult for Vietnamese restaurants. At least, those that want to be more than Pho shops.

[Joel]

Andrea, I think one can still make it cheap and garner respect among the public. For example, for Cantonese cuisine in Hong Kong (a native Cantonese cultural region), not everyone needs to be the Forum Restaurant (the one famous with the prized abalone delicacy). There is also space for a noodle stall that charge HK$18 for a bowl of wonton noodle on Wellington Street in Central - and there are plenty of wealthy elites willing to rub shoulders with ordinary working class people just to get a bowl of wonton noodle at such joints.

But personally, I have never been quite a fan of restaurant empires because we have plenty of restaurant chains in Hong Kong, such as Sun Kwong. The food will, by necessity, be subject to centralized QA control regimes, and they tend to adopt the "consistency over beauty" approach to cooking and ingredients. When you go to such places, you feel that the chefs are able to do better but are restricted by the QA bureaucracy. This is the reason why the likes of Kung Yee never set up sister chains, and Yeung Koon Yat of Forum Restaurant has taught a few talented students in the years, and rather than having them follow the Gordon Ramsay or Alain Ducasse model of setting up chain/sister restaurants under the flagship chefs groups, they started their own businesses.

[Robyn]

Andrea - you asked, 'How can we elevate Asian cuisines to a level where they get the kind of respect they deserve?' This is a matter of changing Western hearts and minds. For most people the ultimate respect goes to fine dining establishments which, by definition, charge more for their food. Very few Americans are willing to view Asian food as something that one would spend a fair bit of money on.

Years ago there was a resto in San Fran called, I think, Jin? (locals help me out here). It was opened by a chef from Nanjing and he served a set menu the composition of which was determined by how much diners were willing to pay. I never had the pleasure of eating at this place but the initial reviews were fantastic - something like 10 or 15 courses could be had for $45 or $50 and it was all prepared by him alone. Soon enough, however, people started grumbling that one shouldn't be expected to pay $50pp for a meal comprised of inexpensive (Asian) ingredients served in a plain dining room with no special service and a BYOB policy. Never mind the amount of labor this guy put into each and every plate, never mind that he was doing things no other Chinese cooks in the city were at that time.

The bottom line is, for most folks Asian food is cheap food and cheap food might be loved but it's not really respected.

An interesting aside is that Italian 'peasant' food - and French, for that matter, *does* garner respect and *has* been elevated to the level of fine dining. How did that happen? Maybe there's something to learn there.

[cakewardrobe]

I just found your class at ICE!! I'm so happy! Going to sign up with my mum! :)

[Minh-Nhu Nguyen]

Hi everyone
I'm heading to Ny for the first time next week.
I had intend on going to Bao111 amd Mai House, but now having second thoughts. Is it worth it just to see what all the fuss is about? Which one do you think I should choose?

Is there an area that is predominately Viet(food) in NY?

[Andrea Nguyen]

Robyn, you're thinking of Jai Yun -- which is still in Chinatown and for $40 a person, you let the chef make the call. I recently heard from a Chinese-American woman that she felt that restaurant was too expensive. As compared to what? As compared to the other cheap places around the corner in Chinatown -- but as my mother says, "You get what you pay for."

Yes, we're willing to pay for "rustic" Italian and French fare but not Asian fare. Just on Tuesday, I went to SPRQ in San Fran and we had a very nice dinner of peasant-y rustic Italian fare and paid a moderate amount for the evening. It was well prepared food but when I left, my husband and I thought, "Man, if the cooks at SQRQ had the skills to turn out Shanghai xiaolongbao soup dumplings, they'd be $15 an order, not $5.95."

I often wonder if the "cheapeaning" of Asian food is fueled by hyper-entrepreneurial Asian people who try to undercut their competition so as to create copycat restaurants that pop up like mushrooms. If that's the case, we're doing a disservice to ourselves. Also, there's so much new immigrant labor willing to do work for less and employers who are ready to take advantage of that skilled pool.

But people are willing to pay for Vong...

As for Minh-Nhu going to NY, I've heard that Bao Noodles is okay. The spots in Chinatown are good, but I've not heard much else.

Joel, I think I know the $18HK wonton bowl on Wellington that you mention. I ate at the less expensive one that served just shrimp wontons. I loved the fact that they just had a short, simple menu. How I fantasize that Asian restaurants abroad have the ability and guts to specialize like in Asia. You make a few things and that's it. No 100-item menus based on a few sauces.

[Minh-Nhu Nguyen]

Andrea, Check out the menu from the folks @ The Red Lantern (The ones who wrote the cookbook Joel mentioned)in Surry Hills in Sydney.

www.redlantern.com.au

I think the food is very Viet and the prices are reasonably high.

They're always very busy!

[keith nguyen]

Michael Bao Huynh is no longer associated with Bao Noodles / Bao 111 - try his latest joint - Bun Soho - htttp://www.bunsohonyc.com

[Joel]

Andrea, yes I believe you went to the very one that I described. Only three toppings for the noodle soup are available: wonton, dace fish balls, and poached premium grade beef slices (whatever that means), and other than that poached vegetables are available as side dishes.

I would suggest it is a special case of being able to survive in the Hong Kong food service industry doing the most un-HK way. Just as what you have witnessed in America, over in HK almost everyone likes to take the quick route of dishing out copycat ideas in haste, and many love to invent new dishes for the sake of creating something new rather than creating something delicious. The results are a mess and they are usually only good in a few specialties and the others are mediocre.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Joel, we'll just have to keep hoping and looking for the good places to eat!

Keith, thanks for the lowdown.