Solving San Jose's Little Saigon Controversy

Well, we've got a raging conversation going on about the City of San Jose's Little Saigon (now called shorthand LS) naming issue. The comment thread is full of great stuff, numbers, gossip, and lots of well-thought out discourse. Okay, there's a little screaming but it's more like a coffee klatch/cocktail party.

It's an impasse, with hunger striker Ly Tong giving up water, and lots of numbers being tossed around.
The City of San Jose is coming up a wee short on leadership in this matter or maybe it's gotten itself between a rock and a hard place. In any event, I'm posing this question to those of you who are invested in what the 1-mile strip of Story Road should be called:

How should the City of San Jose resolve this impasse?

Let's put our brains together and pose feasible solutions!

Comments

[Ha Tran]

I think we should have a poll with 4 options to choose from regarding a name for Story Road Area for Vietnamese American in San Jose: 1. Little Saigon, 2. Saigon Business District, 3. As long as it has Saigon in it, 4. Don't Care. Somehow, this has to be regulated...no cheating. Based on the number of counts, we would determine the name. If Don't Care has the most vote, then let the business folks decide. If the "As long as it has Saigon in it" has the most vote, then let the council members decide. If either names have most votes, then you know what the outcome would be. Whatever the result is, we should be happy and move on :)

[thanh]

Let the people of district 7 vote on the name , given in multiple choices , among which should include Little Saigon and Saigon Business District or no name at all. This would be the fairest and most democratic. Nobody can complain of "No Democracy" in San Jose. End of the story.
Let 's put it to rest. So trivial a matter magnified and blown out of proportion.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Thank you two. Your comments set us on the right path!

[J. Nguyen]

We should have an official RDA survey that surveys all the people affected by the name. After the survey is done, we should make sure that the results are legitimate by doing another survey because the initial survey showed that Little Saigon is #1.

After the second survey shows the same result as the 1st survey, we should have a third party look into possible voting errors (machines, ballots, lost in the mail, whatever you can think of) that may be causing the results to show that the majority support Little Saigon. Because of course, the 'Silent Majority' clearly is against Little Saigon, but yet why is this not reflected in the survey? There must be some error.

In order to solve this dilemma, we should then hire a group of surveyors to survey the equipments, voting process, and ballots to see if there is anything to discredit the Little Saigon majority.

Finally, after everything is exhausted, and there is no evidence to deny Little Saigon and that that this 'silent majority' exists, the city council looks at the result and picks the dead last name and officially designates the area that name as a compromise.

And the cycle begins again. And as Little Saigon gets close to getting it name recognized, a handful of businessmen and opponents of Little Saigon speak up saying they represent the 'silent majority' who initially did not care to send in their survey.

They complain that their voice was not heard in the initial 2 surveys because only 10% returned the survey and the other 90% did not bother to send in their surveys. Thus, they conclude that this is too small of a sample size because the survey did not include the other 90% (the silent majority) who didn't send in their survey. And since they speak for the 'silent majority', they conclude that the 90% who did not care to send in their survey are against Little Saigon.

Come on people, there are dozens of surveys already. They all say the same thing.

[zach]

Name the strip Little Saigon Business District...compromise for all.

[James Nguyen]

I second Zach's motion.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Zach -- That's brilliant and simple for a name. Excellent.

As for the sampling size, it's been a good decade since my graduate school statistics class but the way the math is done for statistical surveys is that your "N" -- the number of respondents in a survey is rather small relative to the actual population that you're trying to poll. For example, here's a sample size calculator:

http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm#terminology

If you wanted your results to be +/- 5 percent accurate (which means what ever results you get are pretty reliable) you only need to obtain responses from about 660 people -- whether or not your population is 94,000 or 1,000,000. It's funny math, but it's the random aspect of statistical probability. There are other factors involved in surveying and polling techniques that can skew the results, but nevertheless, your "N" is not big. Kinda cool.

[civil]

Name again .Another fight .Vietnamese people in san Jose must have nothing to do in society .
A- 2500 Little Saigoners must have a lot of time to be in city hall to shout .
B- 1 million residents in San Jose are productive at work .

[Zach]

Civil, I've learned to ignore comments like yours.

[quang]

Little Saigon Business District is a good compromise.
Regarding Civil 's comment , I found it amusing but somewhat truthful. Those demonstrators sure did not have anything better to do :-((
Anyhow , Vietnamese population in Bay Area is around 250000 , even 7500 people protesting at San Jose City Hall is still a very small number (around 3 %) so to claim that Little Saigon is a overwhelming choice among Vietnamese is really absurd.
There is lots of absurdity and extremism shown so far by the demonstrators so nothing surprises me anymore.

[Zach]

Quang, you said there's lots of absurdity and extremism shown by the demonstrators....I think you need to read up on what's been happening. I won't dispute your points here because all your points have already been well disputed in the other post on this site http://vietworldkitchen.typepad.com/blog/2008/01/little-saigon-c.html so go check that out. The question right now is not how the name should be compromised anymore, but more like will the Little Saigon group forgive and forget and not press charges against Sam Licarrdo, Henry Le, among other council members. After it's been widely publicized that there's forgery, lies, deception, illegal behavior shown by the anti-Little Saigon group, Mayor Reed have asked that the two sides sit down to come up with a compromise but the offer has been refused due to Little Saigon now has the upper hand. People should know when to quit...the council made numerous mistakes and one of which is let it drag on too long, now it's too late to turn back. More things have been discovered, more dirt has been dugged up, someone will have to answer to the court for their illegal actions. If they continue to let this drag, I'm afraid that we will find out even more dirt from the other side as to why they oppose the name Little Saigon. By the way, did you know that Henry Le (owner of Lee's Sandwiches) is the owner of a plaza called Saigon Business Center and that's why he is all for the name SBD. Coincidence or a planned tactic once again between our once beloved councilwoman Madison and wealthy businessmen?

Solution:

Action from council: Name the strip Little Saigon or Little Saigon Business District
Action from Madison and Henry Le: apologize for all their wrong-doings, personal intentions etc.
Action from LS supporters: Be the bigger person and drop all law-suits, recall campaigns etc., what we're after is a name, no need to recall anyone or make anyone go to jail.
Action from everyone: shake hand, move on.

[quang]

Hi Zach ,

Why is it not absurd to impose a name on a group of businesses about their location 's name without their consent ?
Why is it not extreme to threaten somebody 's lives just because they disagree with you?
Why is it not silly to allege communist involvements based on groundless accusations ?
Why is it not absurd to even allege Major Chuck Reed 's being bribed by the commies ?
About Henry Le and Sam Licardo 's dirty involvements here , please show me the proof ?
Sanity and reason , please !

[Michelle]

This is a great idea Andrea - a productive way for us all to try put our heads together to move towards a solution. I join Zach is saluting you in doing a wonderful job in spreading the Vietnamese culture through your love for food. While we may not agree on some things I agree that what Loc said was a bit harsh. I get where he/she's coming from and I hold a similar stance, I am very proud of my Vietnamese heritage and take every opportunity I get to share my love of Vietnamese food, culture and people. While his/her comments were rough around the edges I think he/she meant well. I don't think it applies to you but there are those out there are who are sometimes "embarrassed" to be Vietnamese. It may be from ignorance and is really ashamed because there’s a lot to love about our culture.

I agree with Zach. I suppose “Little Saigon Business District” is the only reasonable compromise. I've already stated how I feel about calling an area just a "business district" but that's my opinion. In regards to Quang...I don't think it's necessary to take such a hostile tone. To answer some of your pointed questions:
Why is it not absurd to impose a name on a group of businesses about their location's name without their consent ? --> "Impose"? Why didn't the "businesses" speak up in November when the city council (led by Madison) IMPOSE "Saigon Business District"? I put "businesses" in quotation because at this time, we're not sure if some of the signatures were forgeries. How questionable is that?
Why is it not extreme to threaten somebody's lives just because they disagree with you? --> Again, until there is concrete proof I consider this an unfounded accusation (or otherwise a cowardly act from a person who does not truly represent LS supporters).
Why is it not silly to allege communist involvements based on groundless accusations? --> Groundless? This remains to be seen.
Why is it not absurd to even allege Major Chuck Reed's being bribed by the commies ? --> I have yet to hear this accusation and personally, don't think it's the case.
About Henry Le and Sam Liccardo 's dirty involvements here, please show me the proof ? --> This last point I am MOST curious about. It MAY be that Councilman Liccardo did not know about the possible forgeries but I am sure Henry Le MUST KNOW...after all he claimed that he and his representatives collected those signatures themselves. The TRUTH will be revealed in DUE TIME and there will be consequences if these improprieties are proven true.
If you get a chance you can read the latest from Mercury News: http://www.mercurynews.com//ci_8530057?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com

[Michelle]

Here are some quotes straight from the "horses' mouth" so to speak:

"Based on what I have learned, the document amounts to at least a blatant misrepresentation," Councilman Sam Liccardo said Monday.

Hoping to clarify the ensuing confusion, Liccardo said he had a "frank" conversation with Le over the weekend.

"Henry acknowledged that the signatures were gathered several weeks or months ago, but did not offer a convincing explanation why a March 4 document would be attached to signatures that are months old," Liccardo said. The former prosecutor has asked the city attorney to explore possible legal action against anyone who tried to fool the council.

Mayor Chuck Reed spoke with Le on Monday. He said Le stood by the petition and told him that he gathered all the signatures and that they were in support of the mayor and Councilwoman Madison Nguyen.

Reed and Nguyen, the council's only Vietnamese-American, have been the main targets for "Little Saigon" backers.

Le also told Reed that his "talking points" for Tuesday's meeting may have accidentally been confused for the petition's cover letter when it was submitted to the city clerk.

Like Liccardo, Reed didn't fully understand the explanation.

You all can read the full article from the above link to the Mercury online news. I hope that helps Quang.

[dung]

Michelle,

Your response are not convincing at all.
Please at least try a little harder.
Accusations unproven are considered groundless until proven otherwise.
Chuck Reed's being alleged to have taken bribe and siding with VC had been well known and a topic of frequent attack by these demonstrators unless you have turned a deaf ear.This is a well known fact in Vietnamese community .
Remember this country operates on the prerogative "Innocent until proven guilty" which these protesters seem to constantly ignore.I am quoting Reed's comment here "They (the protesters) seem to think anyone who does not endorse Little Saigon is a communist" .That sums it up there for these protesters,
Last but not least ,Zach alleged Sam Licardo 's dirty involvement here but you seemed to ignore his comment.
Too many allegations but nothing substantive.

[civil]

People in San Jose will remember the .....fight ,not Little Saigon ,liars .

[Zach]

Dung, which part of my comment did I alleged Sam Licardo's dirty involvement? PLEASE QUOTE ME SO I CAN SEE if not, please go back and read it more carefully. It is a known fact that there are charges on only against Henry Le, but also against Sam Liccardo because being a council representative, he did not investigate a document thoroughly before using it in a crucial decision making process. Again, where did I say he's involved in this dirty tactic?

Michelle does not have to try harder to prove anything to you guys because apparently, from the beginning until now, besides Andrea Nguyen, the anti-Little Saigon group is very stubborn and will never listen to anything even if there's a mountain of proof. Even when Henry Le is in jail, you guys will still have something to say. If he didn't do anything wrong, why did he leave San Jose huh?

Quang, let me answer your questions:
Why is it not absurd to impose a name on a group of businesses about their location 's name without their consent ?

It is absurb if we try to impose a name on your house, or your business such as we refuse to let the owner of a Pho restaurant name his own restaurant, rather, we want to name his restaurant Pho Little Saigon...then yes that's absurb. However, the issue right now is not naming one business, but naming an area, a strip, where not only there are businesses, but residents, tourists, visitors from out of town. This strip does not belong to anyone in particular. That's like if Vietnam were to change their country name to Communist, although it's their country and what they do with it is their own business, do you think the world will get involved? And remember, Madison tried to impose Vietnam Town Business District, and then later Saigon Business District....how come I don't hear your counter arguments for this? Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're fighting for then is to have no name at all....way to go for the Vietamese pride.

Why is it not extreme to threaten somebody 's lives just because they disagree with you?

Exactly whose life has been treatened? If so, I need to see some proof here. If you're referring to the CEO of Que Huong radio station, she's getting paranoid over some post online. For all we know, it could be written by a 13-year old. Or better yet, it could be written by someone on Madison's side to frame the Little Saigon supporters. Do you know how many comments like that are floating around the internet about Simon Cowell, the judge of American Idol? Do you think Madison's supporters are all angels and that they have never made any degrading comments towards the other side?

Why is it not silly to allege communist involvements based on groundless accusations ?

I wouldn't call it groundless. Emails from Madison Nguyen to Tang Lap is substantial evidence for backdoor dealings. If you want, contact attorney DoVan and he will let you read them. Continue later.....

[Zach]

Ok let me continue. Groundless is only used when there's no evidence or reasonable doubts.

About Henry Le and Sam Licardo 's dirty involvements here , please show me the proof ?

Once again, show me where I said Sam Licardo is involved in forgery along with Henry Le. Sam Licardo is responsible in a whole new different dimension...incompetentness. Businesses speaking up saying they did NOT sign a petition...that's enough to raise reasonable doubts. For those of you that don't know the laws, there are two kinds of courts, civil and criminal. Civil court is used when a citizen is suing another citizen and criminal is when the State is suing a citizen. For a criminal court, you need to prove someone is guilty BEYOND reasonable doubt, that means you need 110% to prove someone is guilty, and that's why OJ Simpson walked because they were only able to prove about 90% that he killed his wife. But in a civil court, you only need to prove 51% to say someone is guilty and that's why Henry Le needs to be scared if he did anything illegal because they are taking him to civil court and it doesn't take much to be convicted. Forging the name of even 1 person is considered illegal, they don't even need petitions from 10+ business owners.

Why is it not absurd to even allege Major Chuck Reed 's being bribed by the commies ?

I personally have not heard of this. I heard that they alleged Madison's Nguyen as being a communist and if you've been following the posts in Viet World Kitchen, you will know that I disagree with this allegations so I don't need to defend myself or explain this to you. Not everyone who takes Little Saigon side agree with everything that's been going on. You guys too, need to keep an open mind.

I called up Madison Nguyen's office yesterday to discuss this issue with her as an involved citizen. Of course, I didn't get her, but her assistant. I suggested that we should call it Little Saigon Business District and get everything over with. The response I got from the assistant was "We already tried to compromise with that name, and along with many other names, but no matter what, this group (Little Saigon) is not happy." I personally been following this issue for a long time now and I have NEVER heard of them wanting to compromise with the name Little Saigon Business District. I might be wrong. Can someone clarify this for me please? Can you show me a memo or a news article that states that they did agree to this name? I want to know because if they indeed come up with this already and the Little Saigon group still not happy, then it's pretty rediculous. However, if in fact nothing like that have ever been publicized, then I wonder why the council keep on lying to the citizens?

[quang]

Zach , below is your comment copied and pasted
"The question right now is not how the name should be compromised anymore, but more like will the Little Saigon group forgive and forget and not press charges against Sam Licarrdo, Henry Le, among other council members. "
Zach, you don't even remember what you wrote ?
Hello , are you there ?
Isn't it allegation of Sam Licarrdo 's involvement ?
Regarding imposing a name on a business strip , the fair way is to let the business owners of that strip
decide on their own .It is not right to impose a name they do not endorse.So it is naturally absurd to impose the name on them.End of discussion.

[quang]

I want facts and figures ... no innuendos and allegations. That is the bottom line.
If no evidence , no allegation.
I used to be a supporter of this group but their actions has alienated me .
Please do not condone these kinds of behaviors.
Zach , see the Mercury News editorial ,"anti-communist extremist" "bizarre allegation of communist involvement " are the expletives the newspaper used to describe this group.
This is projecting a bad image on us in the eye of american public.

[Zach]

Quang, yes, here's what I wrote and I need for you to read it AGAIN carefully:

"The question right now is not how the name should be compromised anymore, but more like will the Little Saigon group forgive and forget and not press charges against Sam Licarrdo, Henry Le, among other council members. "

Here, pressing charges against Sam Licarrdo means they will press charges on him because he was the one who used the petition as a strong argument against supporting the Little Saigon name. Out of the 92 signatures, he only spoke to 2 business owners and from that, he concluded that the petition was legitimate...that was bad decision on his part, showing incompetentness as a councilman and will have to face legal charges.

Here, pressing charges against Henry Le means exactly what it is...for forgery, lies, deceptions etc.

Here, pressing charges against other council members means Councilwoman Madison Nguyen for having other interests besides the interests of the people.

Once again, what part of what I wrote stated that Sam Licarrdo is involved in forgery, lies and deception? Did you see me write "they will press charges on Sam Licarrdo and Henry Le for lies, deceptions and illegal behaviors"? Gosh, I feel like I'm explaining the English language to a 3rd grader. I remember exactly what I wrote, it's just some people need to learn to read.

[Zach]

Zach , see the Mercury News editorial ,"anti-communist extremist" "bizarre allegation of communist involvement " are the expletives the newspaper used to describe this group.

A newspaper is not a Bible. Not everything they say is correct. Just because they use some words to describe some individuals, it is not right for you to go and say that it applies to the whole Little Saigon group. This in Vietnamese is called "vo dua ca nam".

[stacy]

I don't know what's so hard to understand about Zach's comment....it's pretty clear so stop accusing him of saying some thing that he didn't say.

Bravo Zach, your comments were intelligent, civilized, and you brought up some very good points. Same with you, I have never heard of any compromise for the name Little Saigon Business District, if it were, we wouldn't still be discussing this today...I think Madison's assistant doesn't know what she's talking about.

[PN]

We can throw facts, figures, numbers, emails, petitions, recordings, and everything else at you and someone will still say "we need to see evidence". Just wait, only time will tell.

[civil]

Before you guys throw facts ,figures ... please throw away the liar Ly Tong first .