Little Saigon Controversy in San Jose

Note to repeat visitors to this post -- I've started a new post called "Solving San Jose's Little Saigon Controversy" in hopes of getting some solutions to the bickering and intrigue that have created this impasse.  We have great ideas and have amassed lots of knowledge, so let's put to good use!

If you've had your ears to the ground in the Vietnamese-American community in the last few months, you've probably heard about how San Jose is struggling to come up with a moniker for a strip of Story Road near the intersection with McLaughlin. That corridor of Story is in the southern part of the city where there's a concentration of Vietnamese businesses. At the heart of the matter is what to name the area: "Little Saigon" or "Saigon Business District."

The area (District 7) is represented on the San Jose City Council by Madison Nguyen, the first Vietnamese-American woman elected to office in California. Madison supported and voted for Saigon Business District, which was also the City Council's choice.

However, a small but very vocal group of Vietnamese Americans wants the name "Little Saigon" and have been showing up on Tuesdays at City Hall to protest and demand that Madison resign or face a recall election. Initially, they hit her low by accusing her of being connected to communist Vietnam. Then they said that she voted in an undemocratic way because her vote did not represent the will of the Vietnamese community. Now they're calling her a liar.

The arguments from each side are:

• "Little Saigon" properly acknowledges the former capital of South Vietnam and is a stab to the heart of the post-1975 communist regime.
• "Saigon Business District" honors the former capital and avoids a politically charged name.

I'm not a San Jose resident but rather, live nearby and read the San Jose Mercury News paper, which has diligently reported on the story from the beginning. Here's how I weigh in on this issue:

The area in question is puny, though there is a construction project underway for a large shopping plaza, there isn't much there there. The strip of Story Road that's on the table neglects the area at Tully and South King, which is a 5-minute drive away and loaded with eateries and shops. What about those businesses?

It's not all Viet all the time at Story Road. Turn your head ever so lightly and you'll see a taqueria, tamale shop, and Thai-Vietnamese-Chinese market.

Little Saigon? I grew up in Orange County, where the first and biggest "Little Saigon" is and frankly, have always disliked the name. The 405 Freeway sign near the exit often make me feel uncomfortable. Moreover, inside the O.C. Viet community, the area is called it "Bolsa" after the main drag, where it is indeed, all Viet, all the time.

Saigon was never and is not little. For me, the name "Little Saigon" is pejorative and denotes something that's quaint, small, and not particularly powerful. Vietnam has a rich and long history of having kicked plenty of ass. Yes, we're relatively small in geographic size and population, but we've historically been major players. Remember the geopolitics over the Vietnam War? At one point in Vietnam's history, it was called Dai Viet, which means great Viet. Little Saigon? Please…

Northern vs. Southern California? Is there a bit of competition between San Jose and Westminster? In Westminster, when you turn the corner at Brookhurst and drive down Bolsa, you know you're in an unusual place. The signage is Vietnamese and there is a seemingly endless supply of strip malls full of Vietnamese business - from markets, to restaurants, bakeries, delis, accountants, pharmacies, fabric shops, travel agents, dentists, etc. It's vibrant and pulsating with action.

San Jose's Vietnamese community developed in a much more low-key manner because things are generally more mainstreamed in Northern California. There are more Viet restaurants outside of the Story Road area than in it because people up here are open to mixing and commingling. That's just starting to happen in the O.C., where the community has been insular for the most part.

What I'm saying is don't copy the O.C., but do something that's new, different, and reflective of the community, which has grown and developed differently than that in Southern California.

You can't always get what you want in a democracy. Just because Madison Nguyen didn't vote the way a group of Vietnamese Americans wanted does not mean that she acted undemocratically. In fact, District 7 is full of Latino residents too.

If Madison were to be run out of office, there's no assurance that another Vietnamese-American will be elected to represent that district on the city council. Replacing her is not going to do anything. Coming up with a better, more suitable name would be a better place to start. If one of the names can deliver consistently good restaurants and clean markets, I'll be all for it!

Weigh in yourself on this matter. You don't have to be Viet to have an opinion!

For more information:

• [3/9/08] Solving San Jose's Little Saigon Controversy is a new thread I started because this one was getting really long. Also, we need solutions to end the bickering.
• 8Asians.com blog has a detailed comment thread on this political saga
• 1/15/08 Madison Nguyen's political trajectory and potential downfall: The Rise, Troubles of Madison Nguyen [Again, the SJ Mercury is doing an unscientific online poll of whether or not she should resign. Reader/community comments are quite insightful.]
• 1/8/08 story from SJ Mercury News: "An Ultimatum for Madison Nguyen" [Note, you can vote on whether she should be recalled and leave a comment)
• 12/03/07 SJ Mercury News editorial on recalling Madison Nguyen

Comments

[Ha Tran]

I totally agree with C. Andrea Nguyen! :) Awesome!

[Andrea Nguyen]

And, finally -- some numbers... the San Jose Mercury News mentioned today in a piece on the mayor's problems that the San Jose city redevelopment agency sent out 1,136 surveys last August 2007 asking people near the district (e.g., the Story Road area) what it should be called. Only 117 people responded, and of those, 44 wanted "Little Saigon."

The mayor said they should have stopped there and done more outreach, but they didn't. Very unfortunate.

So it seems that in the initial opportunity, not enough pro-LS people responded. The city should have been more sensitive. In the aftermath -- and this happens all the time with public policy concerns -- people suddenly wake up and react to say, "Hey, I'm not getting what I want. No one asked me."

[Andrea Nguyen]

Ladies, when you spend public money (a limited resource), you have to take into consideration the interests of the many people who paid their taxes.

To say that the city is being culturally insensitive and that only Vietnamese people ought to get a say in the naming of the 1-mile stretch of Story Road is -- well, isn't that also being culturally insensitive? We live in America, not Vietnam, not Saigon. Vietnamese people do not live in isolation here.

Most Vietnamese-Americans do not want to move back to Vietnam (you can't drink the water from the tap! :-)) but they want a piece of it here. I have no problem with that, but if you're going to designate an area that is culturally mixed (please look across the street from the Asian Plaza and you'll see the tamale shop and taqueria), you need to build a multiethnic, multiracial coalition. That's just politically strategic. The Vietnamese American community needs to think long-term about how that area may develop.

At the Asian markets, Viet shoppers will "Amigo, Amigo!" the Latino butchers to death to get the cuts and service they want. So to disregard those people's opinions (assuming that they care less) is blatantly disrespectful, if not foolish.

Demanding something in the public arena and justifying it as something that you deserve -- sort of a "It's all about meeeee!" comes off selfish, and can be seen as childish. Someone needs to either (1) come up with a process or (2) simply name the area with "Saigon" in it and we can all move on.

With all the energy spent on this issue (I've been typing more than cooking!), I hope that some decent restaurants and markets open up in that area!

[Amy]

Hi Andrea. How are you? If we are mentioning numbers, then let's take into consideration the first Tuesday meeting back in November to pick the name. From 800-1000 people showed up to City Hall, but only a handful of people spoke up for Saigon Business District, the rest for Little Saigon. At that moment, they should already know what holds the majority. Why then Saigon Business District prevailed at the meeting?

[Michelle]

Dear all,

To the most recent poster...there is significance in a name. It's called symbolism. People have died in the name of symbolism.

First off, I want to commend Andrea for this wonderful site. I am a total foodie and I love the fact that others are enriched by the Vietnamese culture, especially our food. I think everyone's comments have been very thoughtful thus far...granted a little biased (to be expected considering this is an individual’s blog). While I may concede with some of the points you have made (particularly regarding interracial marriage) I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the naming "Little Saigon" issue. And no, just because I sympathize with those that want the stretch in SJ to be called "Little Saigon" doesn't mean I am going to start calling names or label anyone "communist sympathizer." I think I am adult enough to get pass the name calling part. As an educated young Vietnamese-American woman I am truly sadden by what's happening in our community. However, I am also very proud of the way the protesters have chosen to stand up for what they believe in. I find it hilarious that Madison continues to say that she represents the "silent majority." I wonder how that argument will stand up as more and more people continue to (peacefully) protest outside city hall. I don't think calling these people the "loud minority" is justified when it's obvious to most observers that the evidence is to the contrary. While they may not be the "majority" in SJ, (in this issue) they represent the majority that want this strip to be called "Little Saigon." To bring in Latinos and other immigrant communities into the mix is simply a red-herring argument. This is an issue that affects the Vietnamese community; the original proposal was to name a district in recognition of the tremendous contribution of the Vietnamese immigrant community. Wouldn't it make sense to give the people what they want?

Another thing that I take issue with is how opponents of this issue (lead by Madison of course) categorize those that support this cause as "fanatic", "mob", "unemployed people with nothing better to do." I find the last characterization to be particularly insulting and hurtful (not to mention an outright false statement). Only people who are employed can come out and protest? What about those that are young professionals (like me) that are just as committed to the cause and those willing to come out after a long day of work? But then again that speaks to the heart of the matter, I guess the elders (and unemployed) in our community don't deserve a voice…at least not according to Madison, because she only represents business people and the special interests. It is rather sad in my opinion that a person voted to represent her district would categorize those that have chosen to practice their democratic right as such. I suppose it's easy to do considering most of these people are of the "older generation" and English is not their first language. Yes, these people are very sensitive when it comes to issues of communism. Can you blame them? As a result of the war, families were broken, people were left in financial ruin, and reeducation camps...all this has led to a lost identity. These people risk their lives to escape an oppressive communist regime to come to America (and other democratic nations throughout the world) in search of freedom and to give their children better opportunities. Here, they are exercising their American right to free speech and they are labeled as "hijackers of the truth" or "loud minority." I think that by labeling Madison as a communist sympathizer distracts from the issue at hand. In hindsight, clearly there were backdoor dealings in regards to this business district. Those issues will need to be investigated and if this issue continues to spin out of control I am sure more will be revealed in the end.

Lastly, I grew up in "Little Saigon" in Orange County and frankly, find the name to be endearing and with a lot of meaning. I don't find "little" demeaning at all. It's certainly not the original Saigon (the communist made sure to strike that name from the history books) but it's a "little" piece of a community that has been forced out of their homeland. The argument is that San Jose is unique so why copy the OC. So this is to say that all the other Vietnamese-American communities throughout the US are not unique? Uniqueness is not a factor here but it's a matter of unity. It's a unifying term that recognizes our experience and contribution to the larger American society (politically, socially, culturally and economically). It is so that to outsiders, once they enter “Little Saigon” they know they are entering a vibrant community – rich in culture and economically prosperous.

Alrighty, thanks for reading. I don’t think it’s possible to change anyone’s mind, as everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I realize in this blogosphere I am the "minority" but I felt compelled to post…at least attempt to articulate the opposing opinion.

Michelle

[Amy]

At yesterday's council meeting in hope to come up with the resolution to this issue, 300 people from both sides lined up for their 1-minute speech to persuade the council why their name should be chosen. That was also the first time the group in support of Madison called Our Voice spoke before the council. Both sides also submitted a list of signatures. The Our Voice group submitted 800 signatures in support of Madison. Mr. Barry Hung Do submitted 4000 signatures in support of Little Saigon. I think our councilmen and women should be smart enough to do the math. One of the speakers, I believe she's one of the Miss Tet Pageant a couple years back (this is what i think because she looks familiar to me so don't quote me on this) made a comment like this:

"The thousands of people that support Little Saigon cannot represent the 100,000 Vietnamese in the Bay Area. They cannot represent us doctors, lawyers, or tax paying citizens."

I never thought I can find so many things wrong with one commnent. First of all, is this young lady suggesting that the Little Saigon group only pulled in 4000 signatures comparing to 100,000 people, that means the 96,000 SILENT Vietnamese take Madison's side? The Madison's supporters been whining and complaining about representative democracy, don't they understand that this right now is representative democracy? How many millions of people are in the United States? Yet how many people actually vote? Stop with the Silent Majority....it's time to show us some real numbers. Do whatever you need to and get more than 4000 people from your silent majority group out there and we'll back down.

Second thing is wrong with her comment is she said "us doctors, lawyers, or tax paying citizens". Is she suggesting that all doctors, lawyers and tax paying citizens will take Madison's side and only the un-educated, unemployed support Little Saigon? My brother is a pharmacist, and he left work early yesterday to join the City Hall crowd. Really, people should think twice before making any public comments.

Let's talk numbers, Mayor Reed said he didn't choose Little Saigon because only 117 people responded to the survey, and of those, 44 wanted "Little Saigon." Those 44 people represent 37%. What Mayor Reed didn't tell us is exactly how many people chose Saigon Business District...I believe the number was 4%. Either way does not justify their pick for the name SBD.

[Zach]

Can somebody please explain to me if the council does not have a hidden agenda, why is it that they are refusing to adopt the name Little Saigon after we show them again and again that's the majority vote? Why should it only be for the business owners? Businesses survive thanks to the customers, without customers, they will just be empty restaurants and shops. A business district strive due to tourists....without tourists, it'll be a dead town. So once again, why is it the voting of the name is only allowed for business owners? Is this what you call "money talks"?

[Ha Tran]

We fight over a name...luckily, not every names in United States are fought because we will be so busy fighting names that we would have forgotten the most important issues, human rights, poverty, etc. My sister brought a proposition I made to work, regarding "we should be honor and happy to have an area named after Saigon, Vietnamese Largest City...than to waste energy fighting over the slight difference between the names...to move on with this issue" (we are the neutral group) and in only one day she has more than 50 Vietnamese signatures. We could have continued and see how many signatures we could collect over a month.... But was is the point if we collect more than 4000 signuatures??? Does this vocal crowd give in??? They don't care...they would do whatever it takes to get their way. And we would have wasted our time for nothing and then we would be another group fighting for a name and not for a cause. I have the feeling the council members will give up on us and don't have that area labeled as anyting.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for all the thoughtful comments and reports on the council meeting last night. A number of things are clear...one of which is that there were grave missteps on all sides.

Naming ethnic areas of cities is a feel good kind of thing for city government and this has totally gone downhill. The public is getting tired and weary, and it would have benefited from the early onset, from some of the vary articulate comments posted on this site. There are strange things about those survey numbers -- like what were the other names that people supported and how many people wanted them?

A majority is where out of 100, there are 51 or more votes in favor of something. A plurality is what people are most in favor of -- which means it doesn't needs to be a majority. Do you all get what I'm saying here? It's a numbers thing and from the get-go, the statistical reporting on this matter has reflected our general innumeracy. Plus, if there's an agenda, and there tends to be in politics, you frame situations to your agenda.

The issue of the Latino voice is only a red-herring if people think that it's going to cause some kind of problem. It's good to get vetting for things, especially in an area where the businesses are mixed. Make friends of all different colors. I lived in Los Angeles through the riots and believe me, building coalitions is key. Of course, who would have thunk that a 1-mile strip of strip malls would fester such contention?

Had I turned the corner one day at Story and McLaughlin and seen "Little Saigon" signs, I would have said great, I hope this bodes well for the Viet-American community San Jose, which as I've said many times before, deserves more than that 1-mile strip to announce its presence in the City of San Jose.

Yes, this is my blog, so I get to express my opinion. But the fact that all you have chimed in so nicely, it's like we're having a daily coffee klatch/cocktail party. It's fun to discourse. So please, join in the fray!

I hope this situation gets resolves soon. Naming the business section was a campaign promise that the councilwoman made and I hope she sticks by that. It's hard to be a public servant, and I hope that her experience does not deter other Vietnamese Americans from political careers.

[M K Pham]

This is my first time to this site. Kudos, Andrea! Very nice forum for everything Viet from food to the more political matters. I do live in San Jose, and some of our family members have very deep feelings for the Little Saigon issue. My feeling is this: there is a constituancy harboring very deep, very strong emotions connected to the name Little Saigon. Granted, not everyone shares this, but we've all got to admit, MANY share this point of view. In any relationship, there has to be give and take. Clearly, the pro-Little Saigon group WANTS the name (Little Saigon) FAR more than their opposition DOESN'T WANT the name (Little Saigon). Since there is really no harm in naming a strip of Story "Little Saigon", then why not let them have it? It would mean a great deal to literally thousands of Vietnamese trying to hold on to a small but hugely important piece of their heritage.
Further, I prefer to look at the desire for a Little Saigon in San Jose as an attempt to connect with the other "Little Saigon"s nationwide- a way of rebuilding the community that was lost in 1975. There's no question that the old ways will never be resurrected, but if something as simple as a name will infuse a sense of comfort and pride to so many of our family and friends, then why not?
And as for the the repeated allusions to communism, etc. I agree, that would be a horrible thing to be accused of, but I would hope that everyone would be able to reach deep into heart and show some latitude; let's face it, there was a whole lot of suffering and loss at the hands of the communist government, and some suffered more than others. Unimaginable suffering for years and years, decades in some cases. That makes for a raw open wound. Having finally escaped that oppression, I would imagine that one might be a bit more sensitive to matters that even raise a suspicion or suggest that which so many have grown to detest (communism), may be alive and well here in America.
Anyhow, Just some food for thought. I'm imagining myself in the shoes of Little Saigon proponents. It seems that the Vietnamese community has been rather agreeable; not much has been asked for until now. I do try to understand the opponents; the second generation (and beyond) who want to modernize. My point is this (and I do apolagize-I know it was very lengthy). On a scale of 1-10, the "Little Saigon" group wants this name and they feel very emotionally attached to the name, the idea of connecting with other communities, a chance to feel that they're preserving a piece of the life that was lost, even rebuilding that reminds them of home. They are without a doubt a "10" on the "Wants Little Saigon" scale. On the other hand, the group who would prefer something other than (Little Saigon) do not seem to have quite the strong feelings about it. If anyone would like to share your feelings on this, please do. It'd be great if you'd rate it for me (1-10). All I can do now is guess from the few that I've heard speak or read about... some feel more strongly than others, but I'd call the "NOT Little Saigon" group maybe anywhere from a "3" to a "6 or 7" at most. Conclusion: let them have their name. Consider it a gift or token the many elders who feel this way. (Imagine their culture shock: being an elder in America vs. being an elder in VietNam). They deserve a break. One last thought (I promise)... I know that logic would dictate that they just stop it already with the picketing and Black Tuesdays, etc... but maybe they feel that this is their last chance to stand up and take back just a little bit of what they've lost. Giving up on this fight would be like conceding the last chance to resurrect a piece of the home they loved and lost. I do hope that I have not offended anyone. That was so not my intention. I just want to try to understand lots of different hearts. If you made it this far, thank you so much for your attention and consideration in reading this;-)

[Ha Tran]

Pham is right that “Little Saigon” means a lot to their proponents. I understand. I would have supported them even though I think Saigon Business District is a stronger name. However, the ways they go about trying to achieve the name give the wrong message...their tactics lose sympathy from the San Jose community.
1. Threaten to recall a council member if they don’t get the name!!!
2. Hunger Strike!!!!
If Little Saigon is accepted, these proponents think their tactics are correct and they can “bully” people around to get their ways. What kind of role models are they setting for our children? “If you want to achieve something, do anything to get attentions and it doesn’t matter if you hurt someone along the way, go for it???” The tactics are nonsense. If they get the name this time, I don’t know what they would do the next time (if there is a next time).

Pham, if you and other people have written similar comments like yours to the council members before the Little Saigon proponents started the tactics, I think Little Saigon would have been chosen.

[Zach]

Do I believe Madison is a Communist? No I don't. But do I believe there's a hidden agenda involved not just with Madison but possibly with the city of San Jose? Yes, I do.

It started out with a political campaign between Madison Nguyen and Linda Nguyen for the seat in the city council. Both made promises that once elected, there will be a strip with a Vietnamese name to honor our contributions. Madison won the race and yes, she did keep her word and worked on the strip on Story Road. But this is where things got interesting. Very early on, without public knowledge, Madison was conversing with Lap Tang, Vietnam Town (the one right next to Grand Century) developer of what to name the strip. He suggested Vietnam Town Business District and was willing to pay for all signage and fees. Of course, he's building a VN Town, calling the strip VN Town Business District will make it look like his plaza is the main one. Quickly the city councils realized that's illegal and so they refused his idea of paying for the name. However, Madison assured him that the name will be passed. Shortly after, news leaked out to the Vietnamese community that the strip will be called Vietnam Town Business District and people were dumbfounded because no one ever asked for their opinion. When confronted, Madison said that it was the council's decision and it was too late to do anything about it. People then found out that Lap Tang already paid to have his signs made....if he wasn't so sure, why did he risk spending money to make signs? That's when the public started to get involved.

Another very interesting is that people have suggested that they will be fine with the name Vietnamtown....only if it's written all one word like that...just like Chinatown, however, from Madison's emails, she emphasized again and again that the two words Vietnam and Town need to be separate and as far away from each other as possible. Strange? Motive? Perhaps because Lap Tang's project will be call Vietnam Town. So now that the word Vietnam Town is out of the question, saving the word Business District is fine too....so there came the compromise...Saigon Business District.

Here's another point to ponder. In the new plaza, Madison bought 2 units under her name. People suspect that those are gifts from Lap Tang if the name he wants get passed, however, Madison said she bought that from her wedding money. I don't know how much those units go for, but her wedding involved less than 100 guests, how much did they each have to give her?

Though they don't have enough evidence to convict her yet, but this is enough to raise reasonable doubts for this once a golden child of San Jose.

[Michelle]

Again, I have to thank Andrea for creating a forum where people can have civil and thoughtful discourse on this issue. I think in the end, we all can agree on one thing, we love the Vietnamese culture: its people, culture, food, etc. We all are very fortunate to be in a democratic society where thoughtful and dissenting discourse is encouraged rather than censored. These are the rights that our parents (and those of their generation) have risked their lives to give me and my generation. For most young people, freedom of speech and the right to participate in government is something we were given at birth – something we’ve taken for granted because it’s so second nature to us. However, the same cannot be said of the elders and the older generation in the Vietnamese community. Democracy and freedom is what they dreamt of when they escaped Vietnam. These people left their homeland to become “foreigners” - immigrants of (usually) low status so they can work hard (usually menial jobs) to support and encourage their children to aspire to be great. It is no surprise then that Vietnamese-Americans are so successful in the US (and around the world) in such a short amount of time. As a student in the University of California system, I know for a fact that there are a disproportionate number of Vietnamese-American students compared to other “minority’ population. Likewise, there are so many numbers of professionals contributing to the vitality of American society – doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, teachers, engineers, etc. – that I can’t name them all. I’d just wish there were more in politics. That brings us back to the issue at hand. I was very proud when I heard that Madison Nguyen was the first elected public official in SJ. There are also a few in Orange County (and hopefully the numbers will grow) but they have been mainly limited to areas with large Vietnamese American communities. Being a public servant is a top job and it’s not easy trying to please everybody. However, one is elected to office to serve a particularly constituency. In this case, a majority of the Vietnamese Americans (in the district) came to the polls to vote Madison into office. Yes, there are other non-Vietnamese in District 7 and Madison is also their councilwoman. I don’t mean to diminish the voice and contribution of the other ethnic groups…diversity that makes America so great. However, would Madison have won if the majority of the Vietnamese population didn’t come out to support her? I am sure while running her campaign she made certain “promises” to represent and “be the voice” of the Vietnamese American population in District 7. In this situation, is she “representing the people” or the interests of businesses??? I also believe in self-determinism, as one of the councilman alluded to in proposing to let the business owners decide what they want to call the commercial area. But that point was brought up a little too late. These business owners who recently signed the petition didn’t care that it was a top down decision when the city council voted for “Saigon Business District.” The CITY (with the encouragement of Madison) decided to designate the strip of Story Road as way to thank the Vietnamese community (not just business owners) for their large contribution to SJ. Businesses can only exist and survive if people actually patronize them – no customers no profit. In addition to it being a feel good exercise, naming the strip was also in the city’s best interest because it would drive tourism and bring tax revenue. It’s not just something that the city is giving to the Vietnamese people but it’s actually a way for the city to capitalize on the Vietnamese entrepreneurial spirit. It’s something our community had to work very hard to earn. A professor from UC Davis mentioned at the meeting on Tuesday that she grew up in SJ and has never once heard anyone demand it call “Little Saigon” and why the protesters are so up and arms now. How funny, sad and tragic all at the same time. She represents the opponents of this issue – supposedly the “educated” silent majority that supports Madison – those that don’t really care what the strip is called but questions why the people are demanding it called Little Saigon. I am educated and am a young professional…she doesn’t represent me and I certainly don’t support Madison on this issue. The comment is also in reference to the ignorant young lady who claimed "The thousands of people that support Little Saigon cannot represent the 100,000 Vietnamese in the Bay Area. They cannot represent us doctors, lawyers, or tax paying citizens." As a community, we were not strong enough to “demand” anything in the past. Things have changed (in a very short amount of time I might add) because Vietnamese people are now business owners and professionals who have become an intricate fabric of American society. Many pay taxes, hold civic office, and contribute to the diverse communities of San Jose (including Latinos, African Americans, etc). Can people begin to understand why the elders and older generation protest? It was heart wrenching to see and listen to elders (with their limited and broken English) try to express why naming Little Saigon was so important to them. They are simply demanding to be heard – since they can articulate in words they had to resort to strength in numbers. I empathized with their sense of injustice because they wrongfully thought once they voted a Vietnamese American councilwoman would champion their cause (by the way it’s not necessarily mutually exclusive that when you champion for one community that you somehow neglect others). ALL benefit from the tax revenues that a “tourist district” would generate.

Also, I would have to respectfully disagree with "Saigon Business District" as a "stronger" name. In my opinion, it's a very sterile name and very restricting term to call our community. Yes, this is a commercial district, comprising of businesses, but I hope that we can agree that Vietnamese Americans contribute more to the community than just economically. To call an area just a "business district" really limits and narrows the scope of the invaluable contributions by the Vietnamese American community in SJ. As stated before by someone else on this forum, frankly, calling it "Saigon Business District" is kind of tacky. “Little Saigon” has a much nicer ring to it and connects us to the other Vietnamese American communities throughout the US and the world.

I agree with Ha that sadly, there were not more people who were able to articulate why "Little Saigon" should have been chosen over other names. If that were the case, we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place. But then again, they thought Madison was their advocate in the city council. Another point that I find troubling is how opponents of LS has continue to categorize the tactics thus far, peaceful protests, as "bullying" or "threatening." There will always be extremists on any issue. To pick out a couple of bad apples and use that to demonize an entire group is unfair and misleading. Moreover, even the proposal to recall Madison is within the realm of acceptable political strategy. Although I think it's a bad idea (the city cannot and should not waste money on such a proposition). If they feel she is not representing their voice in City Hall (although she made promises to do so to get into office) then they can simply vote her out of office come election time. Name calling and threatening bodily harm are absolutely unacceptable and once again, distracts from the issue and turn those that may be sympathetic to the cause away. I also don’t think the hunger strike by Ly Tong adds anything to the debate. He’s one individual who’s taken it upon himself to go on a hunger strike to show his solidarity to the protesters – not the other way around. It’s his choice and tactic and certainly not encouraged by the LS supporters. Do I wish the LS supporters had articulated their choice better? YES! But once again, you're forgetting that these are people whose English is very limited. Unfortunately, they have not been smart enough to choose a leader/spokesperson to articulate their vision better. I believe what they've done so far with the peaceful protests is a GREAT EXAMPLE of democracy at work. I think they are setting a terrific example to their children and grandchildren - if you strongly believe in something you have to be willing to fight for it. I love this quote: “Democracy belongs to those that participate.” Madison continue to insist that she represents the silent majority, which goes to show her ignorance and stubbornness. A mark of a good leader is someone who is willing to admit a mistake when he/she sees it and move on. On this issue, the people have spoken and no, they are not the silent minority. By conceding to naming Story Road “Little Saigon” is not succumbing to the mob or bullies, it’s call listening to the voice of your constituency. These people are exercising their right as Americans to protest peacefully and utilizing the democratic process to assert and champion their cause. I realize that a lot of the "younger generations" are not as connected to this issue because they think it's somehow "too political" and once again all about "anti-communism." It's more than that to me. I feel that too many young people (who are far more articulate and fluent in English) are too apathetic about this whole issue. It's really too bad because I wish more of us would stand up to represent our Vietnamese community - show respect and gratitude to what the older generation has gone through, acknowledge the past and the tragic experiences of our elders. People are forgetting that these “people with nothing better to do” were the ones that risked their lives and sacrificed their dignity to give their children the opportunities for high paying jobs and status in American society. As young Vietnamese Americans we cannot continue to be apathetic and begin to listen to the voices of the masses. At this moment, it seems that they need “Little Saigon” more than we do. But in the end, once the older generation passes way, I hope “Little Saigon” will serve as a reminder of a lost identity – the Vietnamese Diaspora. There’s a Vietnamese saying: “uong nuoc phai biet ngon” which roughly translates to “don’t forget your roots” or remember where you came from.

I am so sorry this post was so long and thank you Andrea for allowing me to vent on your blog. I started writing and couldn’t stop because this is from the bottom of my heart and something that I feel very passionate about. It would have been easier if I were not so affected by it…join the rest of my generation that’s mystified why the naming of a strip of road is so important. Like other young people, I did not suffer under the oppressive communist regime but I can only empathize with those who have.

THANK YOU for reading.

[Oanh Nguyen]

Hi all,

This matter is just a type of growing pain as I see it.

If Madison Nguyen wants different name then people at large will be forced to drive for what they want which is "Little Saigon".
The principle of Cause And Effect being observed here. It's very interesting to see what would come out in the long run.
There will be a lesson for someone to learn here and if he/she willing to learn.

[civil]

I ask myself a million times "Does Little Saigon is my identity ??"
I can't tell ,huhuhuhuhuhu .I'm not a doctor ,i'm not a lawyer ,i'm not a busboy ,i can't tell .
My Dad told me we came from Qui Nhon city .That's all i know .
Maybe Linda Nguyen and Bary Hung Do can tell me .

[Stacy]

Until now, I don't understand the reasonings behind not adopting the name Little Saigon? There doesn't seem to be any problems naming the district Little Saigon in LA, Sacramento, San Francisco etc., why is it such a big deal in San Jose? Perhaps because all those other cities don't have Madison Nguyen as their council representative. Councilwoman Madison Nguyen said that the name didn't go well with business owners because it is too anti-Communist. Is she suggesting that only the business owners in San Jose are afraid of the Communists while business owners everywhere else are proud to let the Communists know that they can take away our Saigon, but they cannot take away our identity?

Until now, the group that support Little Saigon are older folks whom according to the councilwoman "have a lot of time on their hands". On Tuesday night, one after another, they approached the podium to voice their opinion why Little Saigon means so much to them. Due to old age, along with the limited broken English, their 1-minute time frame to some people might seem too long comparing to the over-confidence, fluent English speaking second generation supporting the council. However, it is apparent to everyone that every word that came out of these elders are filled with passion, with history, with hope that their voice will be heard. Like someone said, the passion of the Little Saigon supporters is a 10, while their opponent side shows no passion since several people like myself, are still confused as to why they hate the name Little Saigon. The second generation who never experienced the Communist regime needs to understand why and how they are able to speak fluent English now to go against and disrespect our elders. This is in reference to the numerous accusations that people who support Little Saigon are uneducated and unemployed.

The name Saigon Business District suggests that this is a business area...a money making area. Little Saigon suggests an area to showcase the Vietnamese heritage, culture, values. Based on this point alone, I find the name Saigon Business District, just like someone said before, TACKY. Business owners, remember, without patrons, there will be no business.

At the Tuesday meeting, some elders spoke in their native tongue due to not being able to express themselves well in English. There was a translator and when he was trying to translate, Mayor Chuck Reed, though politely, but still can't hide the disrespect, told the translator "It's pretty clear what they said. I don't think we need a translation, I already heard the word Little Saigon". Now I ask all of you, both opponents and proponents of Little Saigon, is this the way you want our Vietnamese elders to be treated? To be told what they said is not important enough to be translated? Is this how the council show the people that they are trying to listen? Mayor Chuck Reed, I am ashamed to say that I have voted for you. Councilwoman Madison Nguyen, I am ashamed to be a Vietnamese when you, sitting there along with all the other councils, to supposedly represent the Vietnamese people, did not say anything when Mayor Chuck Reed suggested as long as he hears the word Little Saigon, the rest didn't matter.

As for letting business owners do the voting, that's just another shameful tactic to silence the Little Saigon supporters and at the same time the council gets their way. We all know where most of the businesses come from.

[James Nguyen]

In any campaign w/ an overwhelmingly large number of people, not only will you see the moderate part of the spectrum, but you will also get to see the extreme ends of the spectrum. That is, you will see a few individuals w/ extreme views who will radicalize the campaign in the name of Little Saigon. That doesn't mean that the cause is wrong. What about the rest of the people in the middle of the spectrum who support Little Saigon? One needs to look at the big picture and not focus on a bunch of bad apples to back up your argument that Little Saigon supporters are "rabid anti-communist fanatics". That's such an easy cop-out argument...of course no one can argue w/ you. You are right.

People like Henry Huong Le of Lee's Sandwiches, Dan T. Hoang of the Federation of Vietnamese Americans, Northern California, and Kieu Linh Valverde of UC Davis have painted Little Saigon supporters as radical extremists who are wrong because they are "Hijackers of the truth, a bunch of mobsters, intimidators, extremists in the name of fear, personal attackers of good people." (Go watch their statements for yourself at http://sanjose.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=2). How can someone argue against that?? Even I can't argue against that!! But it's unfair when one uses a bad apple to argue against Little Saigon. To simply state it, because these people have better English-speaking skills, the public will favor their voice more than those who could only say in English: "I support Little Saigon". By using a few bad apples as a reason to label thousands of Vietnamese as "crazy name calling anti-communist fanatics" is doing more harm than good as it makes us look politically weak and fragmented as a ethnic group when in fact, the majority of Vietnamese are united behind the name Little Saigon.

Honestly, when I heard how those people characterized the Vietnamese-community, I was hurt, saddened, angry, betrayed, shocked, confused as to why one would use such hurtful terms. I am a physician and I support Little Saigon and it was very hard for me to stand there in the cold and hear how these people where trying to portray me to the public. I was embarrassed that these lonely voices at the meeting were going to outweigh the hundreds of thousands of people who support Little Saigon. Please don't smear the Little Saigon cause w/ actions taken by a few disrespectful, non-productive, radical individuals in the Little Saigon campaign.

Here's another example, look at the Republican party, you have conservative republican talk show hosts like Limbaugh who have very radical views that are on the extreme end of the spectrum that a lot of people do not agree with. He's a Republican, but does that mean the Republican party is radical and extreme as the views of him? Of course not.

Finally, it's unfortunate that most of Little Saigon supporters have weak English-speaking skills to articulate their cause. Their strategy was to all show up and let the massive number speak for itself. Unfortunately, when you have a few well-articulated individual who use the "bad apples argument" to paint the entire Little Saigon supporters, the majority becomes a "rabid mob of anti-communist radicals who hijacked the truth."

I am embarrassed that some of my more fortunate fellow Vietnamese-Americans would turn against their own blood, race, culture, conscience, community, and heritage. Why?

To seek the truth, follow the money trail.

[civil]

Little Saigon supporters are using lies :
a- Little Saigon is the identity of VN refugees .
b- Little Saigon supporters are the majority of SJ Vietnamese community .
c-Little Saigon are favorite name among Vietnames community .
d-Little Saigon supporters are the big group of SJ
e-Ly Tong has been on hunger strike for more than 15 days without sick .
Shouting ,bullying ,manipulating,lying,diry tatic ..ect .. are the backlash for VN community .
The bad picture for Vietnamese community is when Ly Tong shows his bared body in city hall .

[Andrea Nguyen]

Lordy people, rise up and state your opinions! Thank you for contributing more to the discussion. I feel flattered that you've found a space where you can vent and express yourselves.

As Oanh points out, this is a growing experience for the Vietnamese-American community, and it has aired a lot of dirty laundry, including the divisions of class, age, and anti-communism. The situation gives us pause about what it means to be Viet, and how to best shape our future as a community.

I don't understand why someone hasn't come out to broker an agreement or to offer to mediate. Why are people being so hard about their positions? Ha has a point about bullying and it seems like both sides are up for the bullying.

As for Vietnam Town -- there's a foundation poured but not much else going on, but for a chain linked fence. Is that correct? I don't recall much else the last time I looked. What happened to the funding for the shopping center?

I agree with you James, follow the money. The developer should have known better than to pay for signs. That's so wrong. Extreme poor judgment.

[Stacy]

Well Andrea, last I heard that Lap Tang is putting that project on hold until the name he wants get passed. Perhaps that's what the city of San Jose is afraid of, if they choose the name Little Saigon, Lap Tang will not invest in Vietnam Town anymore, and therefore city loses money from tax revenues etc. Once again....money talks.

Here's the latest news I want to share with all of you because some of you don't live in San Jose. Out of the 800 signatures submitted by Madison's supporters, they claimed that there were 92 signatures belonging to the business owners on Story Road. Yesterday, a few business owners called into the radio station to speak up in their own defense, two of the names I remember are Com Tam Thanh and Hai Thanh Market. They both said that yes, they did sign a petition, however, they did not recently sign this. They said someone (I believe they said the guy from Lee's Sandwiches) came to them back in October, even before the November voting, and asked them if they want to sign a petition to have a Vietnamese name for that strip. So being Vietnamese, of course they want to sign it. At that time, it wasn't mentioned that the petition was to support Saigon Business District and go against Little Saigon, but just for a VIETNAMESE name. But now that Madison's supporters are submitting that list as going against Little Saigon, they want their names to be out. This makes me wonder, how long ago did they planned all this? They even thought of taking signatures ahead of time and saving them for a rainy day...genius.

The owner of Kim Loan Market also spoke up. He claimed that the signature on the petition does NOT belong to him, someone from his market must've forged it. He never signs his name, he uses a "Kim Loan" stamp.

Civil, the things you listed are not lies.
a. "Little Saigon is the identity of VN refugees ." This is not a lie. It is called an opinion. It is the opinion of the thousands of people that support the name Little Saigon. If you call this a lie, then I can say that Madison's supporters lie when they say Little Saigon is NOT the indentity of VN refugees. Same thing.

b,c, and d are all the same point. You can dispute all you want, but fact of the matter is, both sides been calling out for supporters on radio stations and in the news, but when it comes down to it, Little Saigon supporters far more outnumbered the opponent group. 4000 signatures comparing to 800 signatures, 5000+ people showing up to the protest comparing to a few hundreds showing up to suppport Madison, hundreds of people spoke up before the council comparing to a handful spoke up in Madison's defense. Once again, they did not lie....the numbers tell all. The opponent side loves to mention ghost numbers and SILENT majority, if they are silent, how do we know which side they support. I can just say the 96,000 silent vietnamese support Little Saigon...who's going to prove me wrong because remember, they're SILENT.

And your last point about Ly Tong. Before you make a point, I suggest you read the news. Ly Tong has lost 29 lbs and is very weak. They have paramedics out there because he can faint any minute now. I don't agree with what Mr. Ly Tong did, but in a sense, when numbers can't speak, when voices not being heard, some people feel they will have to resort to something else to seek attention....but unfortunately, the council is blinded and deafened by the smell and sound of money. No one on the othe side will ever show as much passion as for what they are fighting for...which to them, they don't even know what they are fighting for.

Voices from the second generation echoed "don't cave in or else this will never go away". By nature, Vietnamese people are very passive. When was the last time you see thousands of Vietnamese gather to fight for something other than to protest Communism. The Vietnamese people have not demanded much if anything at all from the city, so for them to say if they cave in , we will keep demanding for stuff, they can rest assured, because unless it's communist-related issues, we can care less.

[Michelle]

Wow! I was so moved by all the comments on this blog. Kudos to Andrea to attracting passionate individuals on both sides of this debate. It certainly feels like a nice "coffee break" to share our thoughts on this issue. Stacy, thank you for your very eloquent response. I couldn't have said it better myself. Civil, you have a right to your opinion and the LS supporters are entitled to theirs. As for whether you're from Qui Nhon (I am from Binh Duong btw) or Saigon, that's not what the issue is about here. I think you missed the point there. "Little Saigon" invokes "shared experience" of a lost homeland (which came about when the Communist took over Saigon in 1975 and renamed it HCMC) and not in a literal sense - but somehow I think you already knew that when you made your sarcastic remark. The arguments from LS opponents are flawed (silent majority???) or weak at best. I think, for the most part, the consesus on this blog is not whether the strip should be call "Little Saigon" but how all the parties acted in this fiasco. I still don't understand why opponents want to deny the people what they want? I give props for Madison even running for public office. There should be more Vietnamese Americans in government...but it goes to show that she obviously didn't understand her role as a "public servant" and that is to "serve the people"...not special interest, businesses, and definitely NOT self-interest. I think it's probably best to leave her private life out of this...unless there is clear cut proof that somehow she is doing the bidding for "communist sympathizers." All will be revealed once will follow the money trail. I mean would the public have known about a possible Brown Act violation and the email exchanges between Madison and the developers without the persistence of the LS protesters. I mean they didn't make this up. Sometimes it's easy to say "politics is what it is" but there is a thing as "accountability" and questioning authority when something just doesn't "smell quite right." This is a trying period for the Vietnamese community but we should also commend ourselves because we've certainly exercising our rights as Americans and upholding the principles of democracy.

[Thanh]

To the author, I think what you are using "is a stab to the heart of the post-1975 communist regime" is too much!!! I am a SJ resident but not in district 7. I think the name with 2 words "Little SaiGon" (such as Little SaiGon Business District is the best). After this event, this shows Madison Nguyen is not good at politics. The matter didn't seem to be a big deal. Now, it is a mess. Her reasons and the way she is trying to solve this issue are not good enough. She is the only vietnamese coucil in SJ. So she might make other councils misunderstand about vnese coummunity. Resignning is not a bad advise for her after all.

Ask Madison, why did she fight so hard to convince others or for herself for a name other than "Little SaiGon"? Is she also doing a favor another group of people who think the name must not have the words "Little SaiGon"?

[civil]

Little saigon supporters always think that Madison Nguyen has to do everything for them .
Learn to spell d-i-s-c-r-i-m-i-n-a-t-i-o-n .

[Stacy]

Civil, your comments are filled wtih sarcasms and sadly most of the time, without any proof to back yourself up.

The main question is: If the name Little Saigon is chosen, is there any harm to the Vietnamese community?

The way I look at it, most people agree that they are not against the name Little Saigon, they are just against the protests. So if there's a strip named Little Saigon, I assume then people will still welcome it with open arms. Business will go as normal, the community will calm down and eventually heal. The only downside to this is Lap Tang might not invest in Vietnam Town anymore and the city loses money.

Another question: If the name Saigon Business District is chosen, is there any harm to the Vietnamese community?

Yes there will be. If SBD is chosen, it will upset the thousands of people that support LS and will drive them to more protest, more lawsuits, and eventually to recall Madison Nguyen. We as a community will be wasting time, effort, and money. Furthermore, boycott of the businesses will begin which will eventually affect the economy as a whole. The longer this thing drags, the more the community will divide, the harder it is for everything to heal.

So I don't know why the city council didn't look at the advantages and the disadvantages. By the way Thanh, the name Little Saigon Business District was already brought up to the council, but Mayor Chuck Reed turned it down. The city is not looking to compromise because if they did, things wouldn't have turned this way.

Michelle, I enjoyed reading your long nicely written essay.

[civil]

Stacy ,you miss my line .I mean Madison Nguyen can't be allowed herself to discriminate in public service .That's the law ,no assumption .