Little Saigon Controversy in San Jose

Note to repeat visitors to this post -- I've started a new post called "Solving San Jose's Little Saigon Controversy" in hopes of getting some solutions to the bickering and intrigue that have created this impasse.  We have great ideas and have amassed lots of knowledge, so let's put to good use!

If you've had your ears to the ground in the Vietnamese-American community in the last few months, you've probably heard about how San Jose is struggling to come up with a moniker for a strip of Story Road near the intersection with McLaughlin. That corridor of Story is in the southern part of the city where there's a concentration of Vietnamese businesses. At the heart of the matter is what to name the area: "Little Saigon" or "Saigon Business District."

The area (District 7) is represented on the San Jose City Council by Madison Nguyen, the first Vietnamese-American woman elected to office in California. Madison supported and voted for Saigon Business District, which was also the City Council's choice.

However, a small but very vocal group of Vietnamese Americans wants the name "Little Saigon" and have been showing up on Tuesdays at City Hall to protest and demand that Madison resign or face a recall election. Initially, they hit her low by accusing her of being connected to communist Vietnam. Then they said that she voted in an undemocratic way because her vote did not represent the will of the Vietnamese community. Now they're calling her a liar.

The arguments from each side are:

• "Little Saigon" properly acknowledges the former capital of South Vietnam and is a stab to the heart of the post-1975 communist regime.
• "Saigon Business District" honors the former capital and avoids a politically charged name.

I'm not a San Jose resident but rather, live nearby and read the San Jose Mercury News paper, which has diligently reported on the story from the beginning. Here's how I weigh in on this issue:

The area in question is puny, though there is a construction project underway for a large shopping plaza, there isn't much there there. The strip of Story Road that's on the table neglects the area at Tully and South King, which is a 5-minute drive away and loaded with eateries and shops. What about those businesses?

It's not all Viet all the time at Story Road. Turn your head ever so lightly and you'll see a taqueria, tamale shop, and Thai-Vietnamese-Chinese market.

Little Saigon? I grew up in Orange County, where the first and biggest "Little Saigon" is and frankly, have always disliked the name. The 405 Freeway sign near the exit often make me feel uncomfortable. Moreover, inside the O.C. Viet community, the area is called it "Bolsa" after the main drag, where it is indeed, all Viet, all the time.

Saigon was never and is not little. For me, the name "Little Saigon" is pejorative and denotes something that's quaint, small, and not particularly powerful. Vietnam has a rich and long history of having kicked plenty of ass. Yes, we're relatively small in geographic size and population, but we've historically been major players. Remember the geopolitics over the Vietnam War? At one point in Vietnam's history, it was called Dai Viet, which means great Viet. Little Saigon? Please…

Northern vs. Southern California? Is there a bit of competition between San Jose and Westminster? In Westminster, when you turn the corner at Brookhurst and drive down Bolsa, you know you're in an unusual place. The signage is Vietnamese and there is a seemingly endless supply of strip malls full of Vietnamese business - from markets, to restaurants, bakeries, delis, accountants, pharmacies, fabric shops, travel agents, dentists, etc. It's vibrant and pulsating with action.

San Jose's Vietnamese community developed in a much more low-key manner because things are generally more mainstreamed in Northern California. There are more Viet restaurants outside of the Story Road area than in it because people up here are open to mixing and commingling. That's just starting to happen in the O.C., where the community has been insular for the most part.

What I'm saying is don't copy the O.C., but do something that's new, different, and reflective of the community, which has grown and developed differently than that in Southern California.

You can't always get what you want in a democracy. Just because Madison Nguyen didn't vote the way a group of Vietnamese Americans wanted does not mean that she acted undemocratically. In fact, District 7 is full of Latino residents too.

If Madison were to be run out of office, there's no assurance that another Vietnamese-American will be elected to represent that district on the city council. Replacing her is not going to do anything. Coming up with a better, more suitable name would be a better place to start. If one of the names can deliver consistently good restaurants and clean markets, I'll be all for it!

Weigh in yourself on this matter. You don't have to be Viet to have an opinion!

For more information:

• [3/9/08] Solving San Jose's Little Saigon Controversy is a new thread I started because this one was getting really long. Also, we need solutions to end the bickering.
• 8Asians.com blog has a detailed comment thread on this political saga
• 1/15/08 Madison Nguyen's political trajectory and potential downfall: The Rise, Troubles of Madison Nguyen [Again, the SJ Mercury is doing an unscientific online poll of whether or not she should resign. Reader/community comments are quite insightful.]
• 1/8/08 story from SJ Mercury News: "An Ultimatum for Madison Nguyen" [Note, you can vote on whether she should be recalled and leave a comment)
• 12/03/07 SJ Mercury News editorial on recalling Madison Nguyen

Comments

[Andrea Nguyen]

That is really a good point -- how to spend limited resources: time. Now, the city will put the name thing up as a city-wide ballot measure that's going to cost $214,000 to implement. That's a good use of money, huh?

[Andy]

Saigon was once part of Cambodia and occupied by the Khmer people, until the Vietnamese moved in from the north and took it over and gave it its "current" (before 75) name. There is something to be said for naming an overseas VNese hangout with a name that would bring back good memory and nostalgia, but to call someone names (communist) or to be filled with anger and bitterness because of it begs some re-thinking. And if SJ was to spend 200k to put it on the ballot, would that be a wise use of money? Granted it is good to exercise democracy, but would it be prudent to exercise it over something so minor but with so great a cost? It would be similar to a family spending $200 just to use democracy to name a pet. We already elected officials (in a democratic way) to take care of matters like these, maybe we should give them some trust and let them do their job?!
My family and I are about to move to Vietnam to work as volunteers for a few years, this amount of money could allow us to help many people there.
As for the Vietnamese being a proud people, maybe too proud for our own good!? Vietnam has had a long and rich history, but one filled with many civil wars and much bloodshed. We're feisty, stubborn, and short sighted. We fight over everything; we've been survivors. And today, Vietnam as a country is still considered a third world country. It's a shame that the overseas Vietnamese communities around the world are still fighting, and over something as insignificant as a name of an area.
Let us put away pride and put on humility. Bear with one another in love and leave a good legacy for our next generation. In the end, the true heroes are the ones that let go of their own wants for the sake of others. Let's reconcile and live in peace with one another? Otherwise, we may have a great place with a great name to go hang out at but may end up with no friends with whom to go.
Thanks for letting me post.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Andy, thanks for your thoughtful post. Good luck with the work in Vietnam. We are a squabbly lot and that can be to our own detriment.

[tony]

Saigon Business District meaning former city or meaning HO CHI MINH city district ?????

[andy]

Andrea, thank you. Interesting blog you have here. Believe it or not, I found it not beccause I was looking for cooking tips but out of a search for the word "Saigon." A little bit of social issues seasoning into the blog drew an audience! While a few are squabbling and quibbling over the designation "Little Saigon," you are covering a large "Yue" area with the designation Viet World. Success to you!

[Andrew]

It has a lot to do with the lack of compromise from Madison Nguyen for her not choosing the name Little Saigon Business District at the suggestion of other councilmember as someone points out, and the way she deal with the Little Saigon supporters. This group is far bigger than a small vocal group like Madison Nguyen and Chuck Reed said and it has the support of many prominent Vietnamese Americans in the city and accross America. These people feel very strongly that she snubbed them and the Vietnamese Elderly ( you are expected to respect and listen to the elderly in Asian culture ) over this very important issue for the community and by making some insensitive comments on local TV interview with the arrogant tone to the Little Saigon supporters only worsen her standing with the community.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Tony, you should be a bit more explicit.

Andrew, indeed, Madison Nguyen and Chuck Reed should have handled this issue with more political finesse. This issue may bring the San Jose Viet community down if it is not resolved well.

[dontpanic]

Andrea, I don't have a problem with "Saigon Bussiness District" name since the name has its own meaning. However, I recently read an article from the New york time it said: a "Web site of the Communist Party in Vietnam that announced that San Jose would establish a Vietnamese Business District.”

I feel sad and shocked when I read that. Does the compromise mean taking Vietnamese word out and replace by Saigon one. Sorry, I can not hide my conscience on this matter even sometime I try to ignore what is happening. The name means nothing but the context to name is significant. Are the Vietnamese American younger generation ready to take orders from the Communist Party.
I wish the FBI or the CIA has time to investigate this problem to show us truth!

Please, click here for the article
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/us/16sanjose.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1203302607-yCujx6ciWZNAW34IXP64NQ&oref=slogin

-Davis

[Andrea Nguyen]

Davis, This situation is a complex one and the New York Times piece is the only one where I've seen (I may be wrong on this) the open mention of people caving in to the communist party for development purposes. Whenever I read the news, I read between the lines and consider the source. This is what was printed in the New York Times piece you cite:

Others say that wealthy developers and business people influenced the decision not to call the area Little Saigon, worried that is was too politically charged. Still others say they suspect the name Saigon Business District was chosen to appease foreign investors being courted to help support a financially troubled development on Story Road, known as Vietnam Town. Adding to that fear was a posting before the November vote on the official Web site of the Communist Party in Vietnam that announced that San Jose would establish a “Vietnamese Business District.”

The posting from Vietnam may have totally gotten the name wrong, with capitalizing Business District. English is not their first language or perhaps they were trying to finesse the text so that they would not have to acknowledge the existence of "Saigon." In any event, it seems like a clumsy yet perhaps calculated move on their part. Their reaction to events abroad has to be placed in an official/acceptable/party sanctioned context, which may explain the "Vietnamese Business District" posting.

So I don't think that young Viet-Americans are going to have to take orders from the regime in Hanoi any time soon. Thank you for your concerns and for bringing upu the New York Times article!

[dontpanic]

Hi Andrea, I hope you're right and thanks for sharing your thought here. The problem seems getting worse now. There is no wining or loosing any more. I think all of us are the looser, and I don't know if someone can find a reasonable solution to end this ugly thing. I don't like the "hunger strike"
-davis

[Andrea Nguyen]

Davis, it's a total mess. Mr. Ly Tong's hunger strike seems inappropriate for this situation. He's a showman and knows how to work a crowd.

[duy tran]

i think we have to consider that vietnamese americans arent the only ones living in san jose. i live in san jose myself and do feel that saigon business district is better then little saigon. i have personal reasons for it but i also have talked to a lot of vietnamese and non vietnamese people of the city of san jose and they all prefer saigon business district. the only people i have not found to like this is usually the older generations and the older generations do have a hard hand when things dont go their way, which influence the younger generations. in the san jose mercury newspaper it even stated the vietnamese that are protesting dont want it to be an open vote because they are worried the community of san jose will like SBD over LS and will backlash in the fact that the vietnamese community wasted tax payers money. whether this is true or not i can understand what they mean. the major is right when he said they do not voice the opinion of everyone. vietnamese in san jose are lee then 10% of the total population in san jose, how can you tell me that if only vietnamese people are protessing it then its the will of the people of san jose.

[Trina Nguyen]

You haven't seen the evidence on this matter, Andrea. There is a mountain of evidence of public corruption and, yes, even involvement from the totalitarian regime from Vietnam. Just wait and see. As an artist I understand the power of symbolisms. Little Saigon is a symbol of the struggle for basic human rights for Vietnam. (Why is the Most Venerable Thich Quang Do still under house arrest after 30 years of imprisonment?) It would be quite a blow to Viet American human rights activists if the Little Saigon symbolism can be defeated right here in the US -- and that's why there is such an effort to defeat it.

[Andrea Nguyen]

I wouldn't compare Thich Quang Do's situation to the situation in San Jose. That would seem rather insulting to him.

As for the evidence, I've been waiting for it to be released -- the connection with the developer. Looks like it may have come out today.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_8429927

Whatever that happens in this situation, the Vietnamese American community in San Jose will take a hit. Bear in mind that there are a whole lot of people out there who reside in the district. It's not all Viet all the time in that area and no one seems to care what the Latinos think.

[HP]

It makes me laugh so hard when the Little Saigon supporters saying that Little Saigon is anti-communist .All they are around and around the corner of the street .That is how they say " anti-communist " .
They used to be soldiers fighting vc .Now they are girly to fight for ......the name with a lot of BS.Get out of my sight .

[Katelyn]

Hi Andrea...love the tips on your site. I've been following this Little Saigon debate and here are my two cents. Yes, I agree with you that we have magnified this issue and made it bigger than what's necessary. However, come to think about it, don't blame the protesters for that, but who started this in the first place? It started as something very simple, what to name the strip on Story Road. If Madison already had a name in mind (originally she wanted Vietnam Town and then changed to SBD), then why even bother to have polls and asked for the people's opinion? If you asked for their opinions and then ended up not going with the majority's vote, you're just asking for trouble. She wants to portray democracy by polling the people, but the end result is the most undemocratic decision of all where the name that brought in the least votes won.

A lot of people will argue that Little Saigon and Saigon Business District...big deal, both has the word Saigon in there and that's enough to represent the Vietnamese immigrants in America. True, I agree. However, it's not the name but it's about what the people wants...if the majority votes come back wanting to name that strip Little Sunshine or Pooh Bear, then that's what it should be named because that's what the majority wants....isn't that what democracy is about?

Some will say the council voted 8-3 for SBD and that is democracy because 8 is the majority. Yes, but this is only representative democracy...which is fine, after all, that's how we vote for our presidents too and that's how Bush won over Al Gore despite Al Gore's win for popular votes. However, the council consists of 10 non-Vietnamese and only 1 Vietnamese representative-Madison Nguyen. How will they ever understand the importance behind the name Little Saigon? So what did they do? They listened to Madison because naturally, she will know what's best for the community. But she ignored the people's voice. She claimed that there's a silent majority that didn't want the name Little Saigon and therefore a compromise had to be considered...SBD. I was at the rally on Sunday and more than 5,000 people showed up (SJ Mercury News misrepresented the numbers)....if this is considered as a vocal minority, how many people are composed of her so called silent majority. Right, they did have 600 signatures on their side....now 600 vs. 2,500 (just using sj mercury numbers)....i think we all know the answer.

Some people argue that out of those 2,500, a lot of them don't even live in San Jose. Taken into account airfare, gas prices, economy is not doing well, how many people do they think actually take the time and effort and travel from far away places to fight for a name? Let's say 500 people...which is not believable, but that still leaves 2000 other people. Even if they don't live in San Jose, why spend all that money and effort for a name? Just how important is that name? Shouldn't it be clear?

I will share with you a story later....

[Ha Tran]

I am honor and very happy to have a street name that contains Saigon, Vietnamese Largest City. Does it matter if it is Little Saigon, Saigon District, or Saigon Business? No, it is just opinion. No one is right or wrong. For us to fight over the slight difference between the two names is out of control...let's focus our energy on more important issues, such as poverty, human rights, etc....

Thank you Andrea for your insights. And hopefully, one of us will be at the Tuesday meeting to tell it from our point of view....

[Andrea Nguyen]

Katelyn, Thanks for the first-hand account and insights on yesterday's City Hall protest. I was wondering where and how they got 2,5000 Viet-Americans to come to protest. It's great that so many people turned out, but if the majority of the participants came from out of town, then the general public perception is -- why didn't the local Viet-community turn out in greater numbers. Politics, as the current presidential election is showing, depends a lot of public perception.

The "Vietnam Town" shopping center connection reveals a bit of political naivete on councilwoman Madison Nguyen's part, as well as that of developer Lap Tang. There's an obvious conflict of interest if the name of the corridor is the same as the shopping center, and if the developer pays for the public signage. Bad idea.

The corridor desperately needs an economic revitalization and the Vietnam Town development has gone basically nowhere. I'm sure she was trying to boost the business in the area, but things have become an awful mess. She should have more carefully built a coalition and momentum behind her for whatever name she wanted to forward. There have been many numbers tossed around but nothing definitive. Surveys and polling take a lot of money and have to be done well for them to be solid and trustworthy. There has been no substantive data survey presented. Rather, it's been a protracted battle for both sides to get their way.

We live in America and it's not possible to "get my country back" as one pro-"Little Saigon" protester was quoted in the SJ Mercury article dated 3/2/08. The situation needs to get settled. Otherwise, the general public -- I mean the entire South Bay community -- will tire of the conflict and the Vietnamese-American community will lose what political clout they've built up over the years.

I hope there are negotiations between the LS folks, local community leaders (Viet and non-Viet in the district), and the mayor and city council.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Ha, I know...it would be nice to have a named area. It would be nicer if the area was robust. I've visited a number of "Little Saigons" in the United States and San Jose deserves much much more than what it currently has. People should move beyond the name to address the issue of why there aren't more businesses in the corridor.

[Katelyn]

Hi Andrea..I think you misread my post. The majority of the people who came to yesterday's rally was NOT from out of town. It is extremely sad to see things turn this way...I wish there was a compromise between the two sides, and the best compromise would be call it Little Saigon Business District. But the question is, that has been brought up to Madison, yet why is she so stubborn about it? Could it be because she single-handedly came up with the name Saigon Business District herself and she wants to go down in history as the person who named that strip?

Yesterday at the rally, they read out loud emails going from Madison to Lap Tang discussing to name that strip Vietnam Town. A lot of young people growing up in USA don't care or understand much about politics. I applaud you Andrea for being quite knowledgeable on the issue. Therefore, often times, you will hear young people say Little Saigon sounds tacky, Vietname Town sounds better, or something of the sort. Some argued that Koreans have Korea Town, Chinese have China Town, Vietnamese should have a Vietnam Town and not a Little Saigon. Admittedly, my boyfriend who was raised here, asked me the very same question. But we have to understand the background of the Vietnamese people. Right now, everytime you hear the word "Vietnam", it associates with Vietnam the country and not the Vietnamese immigrants. Therefore, calling a business area Vietnam Town will very much be welcomed by the Communists. Saigon on the other hand belongs to us..Vietnam before 1975. That raise the question, Saigon Business District and Little Saigon...very minor difference...who cares. Naming the strip Little Saigon, we are establishing a connection with the Little Saigon in L.A. as well as the Little Saigon in Sacramento, which means there are a set of rules that Commnunists officials must obey when visiting such places. One of which is they have to notify us first if they want to visit and two, we will not pay for police escorts. However, naming it Saigon Business District, there is no connections, no rules, the Communists can come and go as they please.

I admit sometimes we are harsh on Madison. After all, she's young and everyone is prone to making mistakes...we should be more forgiving. However, Madison shows no sign of wanting to compromise. In an interview, she said that protestors are people who have a lot of free time and so she has to represent those who work full time jobs. This is a big slap to the protestors...people who are old enough to be her parents. Being a Vietnamese girl, hasn't anyone taught her to respect her elders?

In another interview, she said she didn't agree to the name Little Saigon because it is too anti-Communist. What is she trying to do? Pouring oil into fire? Perhaps she's just inexperience as a politician and shouldn't accept to do any interviews.

Democracy is the question here. At one of the meetings, a gentleman was asked to leave the building because they didn't like what he had to say. After talking back and forth, city councils finally backed up when they realized the person they're talking to is Attorney Do Van Quang Minh and he knows his laws more than they do.

Another issue that raises concerns is who is Madison's husband? It's been confirmed that he was a foreign exchange student and has been in the US for 10 years. No one seems to know his background or anything about him. Why was the wedding so secretive? What does she have to hide?

I promised to share a story with you. Yesterday at the rally, there's a family of four...the husband and wife are in their 30s and the two young kids, one was 9 and the other 10. They both hold the Vietnamese (3 stripes) flags with their little hands. The older boy keeps asking his mom "Where's Bac Tong? Where's Bac Tong?" He was referring to Ly Tong. Surprised, I asked the little boy if he is related to Ly Tong and he said no. I asked him why he's looking for Bac Tong and he said "I want to tell him to eat something". Innocent words coming from a young boy made me realize that this whole fiasco is tearing our community apart. I asked the boy "do you know why you're here?" He said, "We want Little Saigon" After talking to his parents, I found out he's a fifth grader and this family lives in District 7.

Madison is a bright woman and once had a bright future ahead of her political career...it's sad to see she was willing to throw that opporunity out due to pride, stubborness, and over-confidence.

[Katelyn]

Oh by the way Andrea, to answer your question why the strip on Tully Road is not being included, it might be because soon we won't have a Lion Plaza anymore...the landlord is thinking of taking back the land and build estates. This is still in the air though but might have contributed to why they chose Story over Tully.

[Ha Tran]

You can do a lot of things to show you are anti-communists. However, fighting for a name and not a cause would only causes disrespect toward the Vietnamese Community.

I respected Ly Tong for his past bravery. But for a name, he is willing to starve, is too childish. A hero should not die for a name, but die for a cause.

Madison didn't do a good job explaining to those people regarding the name...but that doesn't deserve to be recalled. If you don't like her, then you don't vote for her the next term.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Katelyn, I did misread your comments because it seems like you were implying that many of the protesters were out of towners.

Councilwoman Madison Nguyen is learning a lot from this experience and it will be interesting to see what happens next. I have no idea what her personal life is like and I don't think it's my business who she marries. District 7 elected her and supported her. Voters had every chance to check her out. She may not be doing her job with enough political finesse because she's not seasoned enough. The community has been extremely harsh on her. We are often most harsh on our own, and that is unfortunate. When this whole thing ends, it may be a while before San Jose elects another Viet-American official.

I've suggested way back that the backers of Little Saigon should have done a better PR campaign to win people over to their side -- the whole linking up with other Little Saigons all over the country. I don't think that the community in Sacto is officially named Little Saigon. In Orange County, that's the grandaddy of them all. In San Francisco, there's an official Little Saigon in the Tenderloin area, near the Civic Center.

Little Saigon isn't a jurisdiction of its own so I don't understand why there are rules that Communist officials have to obey if they visit. Do you mean diplomatic protocol?

[Lori Dinh]

The issue here is clearly cultural insensitivity. Little Saigon, to many, represents the reasons why many Vietnamese are here. They acknowledge that Saigon is gone and that they have to start anew.

I did not understand the issue either having been born and raised in Texas. But after speaking with my parents, I understand the issue.

For a city which boasts cultural diversity, San Jose city council has displayed their cultural insensitivity.

It is indeed a silly matter, but nonetheless, why not give the people what they want? As you say, the area is "puny". There are many cultures in that little area; however, do they are as fiercely as those who voted for the name Little Saigon? Remember, most do not care. It would not make a difference to them if the area was named Saigon District or Little Saigon.

For the majority who cares, why not give them what they want? Why must we go against democracy and waste $300,000 on putting it on the ballot.

I am quite disappointing about how my tax money is currently spent. GRRRR>

[Katelyn]

I agree with Lori. Madison and her suppporters bring it up again and again that there is a SILENT majority who wants SG Business District. However, with the issue getting this heated, if they don't speak up by now, obviously that name to them is not all that significant nor do they care about the issue. Usually these are the young generations or business people who rather spend time to make money rather than bickering over a name. But for a group of people, majority the older folks, a name means everything to them, their history, their country, their pride, then why not just give it to them?

Andrea, you said that District 7 elected her and they had every chance to check her out. Before she was voted into office, her background was clean. After she got voted into office, that's when some of the ambiguous incidents took place. It's true that who she marries is her personal life and it's none of our business, but being a public figure, if who you marry will affect the way you govern, then it's a public issue....same as why people have to bring Bill Clinton in when Hilary is running for President. Madison was single when elected, but suddenly married to a mysterious boyfriend on 7/07/07 and it just so happens that he's a foreign exchange student. In Vietnam, there's not a lot of middle class, just the super rich, and the super poor. To be able to afford education in the United States for 10 years before he marries Madison and stay in the US permanently, how rich do you think this guy has to be? And in Vietnam, to be this rich, what kind of business do you have? We all know what kind of government Viet Nam has right now and these are the questions we need answers from our councilwoman but unfortunately she never responded. My dad always taught me, if you don't do anything wrong, you don't have to hide anything.

People kept on arguing that there are a lot of other race in the area and they all should have a voice. If the county already recognized that area as a Vietnamese retail area, then only the Vietnamese people should vote because those Hispanics, Whites, Blacks, can careless what the name will be. Just like a child, only the parents should be able to name this child. This little business area is the child of the Vietnamese immigrants in San Jose, if there must be a poll, it should only be for the Vietnamese people. But of course Madison and Chuck Reed won't allow this because they already know the outcome. They are at a much better advantage to include all the other race, only then, they can destroy the name Little Saigon.