Little Saigon Controversy in San Jose

Note to repeat visitors to this post -- I've started a new post called "Solving San Jose's Little Saigon Controversy" in hopes of getting some solutions to the bickering and intrigue that have created this impasse.  We have great ideas and have amassed lots of knowledge, so let's put to good use!

If you've had your ears to the ground in the Vietnamese-American community in the last few months, you've probably heard about how San Jose is struggling to come up with a moniker for a strip of Story Road near the intersection with McLaughlin. That corridor of Story is in the southern part of the city where there's a concentration of Vietnamese businesses. At the heart of the matter is what to name the area: "Little Saigon" or "Saigon Business District."

The area (District 7) is represented on the San Jose City Council by Madison Nguyen, the first Vietnamese-American woman elected to office in California. Madison supported and voted for Saigon Business District, which was also the City Council's choice.

However, a small but very vocal group of Vietnamese Americans wants the name "Little Saigon" and have been showing up on Tuesdays at City Hall to protest and demand that Madison resign or face a recall election. Initially, they hit her low by accusing her of being connected to communist Vietnam. Then they said that she voted in an undemocratic way because her vote did not represent the will of the Vietnamese community. Now they're calling her a liar.

The arguments from each side are:

• "Little Saigon" properly acknowledges the former capital of South Vietnam and is a stab to the heart of the post-1975 communist regime.
• "Saigon Business District" honors the former capital and avoids a politically charged name.

I'm not a San Jose resident but rather, live nearby and read the San Jose Mercury News paper, which has diligently reported on the story from the beginning. Here's how I weigh in on this issue:

The area in question is puny, though there is a construction project underway for a large shopping plaza, there isn't much there there. The strip of Story Road that's on the table neglects the area at Tully and South King, which is a 5-minute drive away and loaded with eateries and shops. What about those businesses?

It's not all Viet all the time at Story Road. Turn your head ever so lightly and you'll see a taqueria, tamale shop, and Thai-Vietnamese-Chinese market.

Little Saigon? I grew up in Orange County, where the first and biggest "Little Saigon" is and frankly, have always disliked the name. The 405 Freeway sign near the exit often make me feel uncomfortable. Moreover, inside the O.C. Viet community, the area is called it "Bolsa" after the main drag, where it is indeed, all Viet, all the time.

Saigon was never and is not little. For me, the name "Little Saigon" is pejorative and denotes something that's quaint, small, and not particularly powerful. Vietnam has a rich and long history of having kicked plenty of ass. Yes, we're relatively small in geographic size and population, but we've historically been major players. Remember the geopolitics over the Vietnam War? At one point in Vietnam's history, it was called Dai Viet, which means great Viet. Little Saigon? Please…

Northern vs. Southern California? Is there a bit of competition between San Jose and Westminster? In Westminster, when you turn the corner at Brookhurst and drive down Bolsa, you know you're in an unusual place. The signage is Vietnamese and there is a seemingly endless supply of strip malls full of Vietnamese business - from markets, to restaurants, bakeries, delis, accountants, pharmacies, fabric shops, travel agents, dentists, etc. It's vibrant and pulsating with action.

San Jose's Vietnamese community developed in a much more low-key manner because things are generally more mainstreamed in Northern California. There are more Viet restaurants outside of the Story Road area than in it because people up here are open to mixing and commingling. That's just starting to happen in the O.C., where the community has been insular for the most part.

What I'm saying is don't copy the O.C., but do something that's new, different, and reflective of the community, which has grown and developed differently than that in Southern California.

You can't always get what you want in a democracy. Just because Madison Nguyen didn't vote the way a group of Vietnamese Americans wanted does not mean that she acted undemocratically. In fact, District 7 is full of Latino residents too.

If Madison were to be run out of office, there's no assurance that another Vietnamese-American will be elected to represent that district on the city council. Replacing her is not going to do anything. Coming up with a better, more suitable name would be a better place to start. If one of the names can deliver consistently good restaurants and clean markets, I'll be all for it!

Weigh in yourself on this matter. You don't have to be Viet to have an opinion!

For more information:

• [3/9/08] Solving San Jose's Little Saigon Controversy is a new thread I started because this one was getting really long. Also, we need solutions to end the bickering.
• 8Asians.com blog has a detailed comment thread on this political saga
• 1/15/08 Madison Nguyen's political trajectory and potential downfall: The Rise, Troubles of Madison Nguyen [Again, the SJ Mercury is doing an unscientific online poll of whether or not she should resign. Reader/community comments are quite insightful.]
• 1/8/08 story from SJ Mercury News: "An Ultimatum for Madison Nguyen" [Note, you can vote on whether she should be recalled and leave a comment)
• 12/03/07 SJ Mercury News editorial on recalling Madison Nguyen

Comments

[San Jose Voters Against Spanish-Inquisition Democracy]

If you let anyone from that "San Jose Voters For Democracy" group read this article, you will find yourself branded as a communist almost immediately, quicker than you can say "democracy".

[Andrea Nguyen]

Branding someone as a communist is a below-the-belt, cheap trick. Democracy is about preserving the rule of the majority and protecting the voices of the minority.

[SJ resident]

I've grown up in SJ between those stretches of Tully and Story Road. Thank you for a well written piece on this matter.

[Nate]

It's too bad that these people feel they've been offended and let down so much that they want to remove their representative from office. If only they could channel their energy and commitment into more positive actions and working to improving the city. Actions such as reducing gang violence, staffing youth outreach programs, or building businesses and creating jobs.

I understand a lot of people have hard feelings about what happened to them in the "old country". But what binds a community together is not hate but hope. Build something for the future of all residents of San Jose - your children, my children, and the ones who come after.

[Lili]

Andrea,

I totally agree with everything that you've written. As a proud Vietnamese woman, I detest the term "little", and consider "Little Saigon" insulting and patronizing. I have a feeling that this a small dissenting group. They certainly don't represent me. And I hope that Madison Nguyen knows that there are plenty of people who support her decision. And yes, I live in San Jose.

[Annie]

If these people can refer to Madison Nguyen as a Communist for choosing a professional and non-cheesy sounding name for that a commerce center, don't know what they would call me (and many others) for being married to a white man.

[Andrea Nguyen]

The fact is that the south part of San Jose where Vietnamese and Latino business commingle is in need of economic revitalization. Yes, Nate, there are people who harbor lots of bitter resentment over the past. I don't blame them. On the other hand, we are in the United States and you need to leave some of the past behind in order to move forward.

I don't want to move back to Vietnam, and I'm sure most other Vietnamese Americans don't either.

Thanks, ALL OF YOU, for your thoughtful comments.

[Diane]

What timing, my father and I had a very similar, heated discussion just the other day.I've told him (and many others ) that I was concerned about the passion and emotion that some active Vietnamese groups convey during their protests. Worst yet, labeling someone a "communist" just because they don't agree with you is selfish, irresponsible, bullying and a sign of weakness. It's happening so often now within our Vietnamese community that calling someone a "communist" has become a childish "copy cat comeback" being used by those who can't debate their cause, outside of screaming and yelling.
Having the right to free speech in America is such a privilege that we, as immigrants , would never exercise, let alone think of, in Viet-Nam. The reason why we fled our homeland was to avoid communist persecution, to escape those who forced their political views on us and to live in a society where we can speak our mind without being bullied or killed. So if these small, vocal and "anti-communist" groups want to live in America and exercise their rights of free speech, why can't Madison do the same ,without calling her something as ridiculous as a "communist"? How are we to progress if we threaten the majority to concede with the ideas of the minority?
I completely empathize with people who are bitter with the Vietnamese government, but they need to convey those negative energies to the government that has suppressed them, not Madison , who is an asset to bettering the Vietnamese community.
I've been called the "C" word for something as simple as choosing to use an American name and because of my Northern accent. My retort is, and will always be this:
"I am the grand daughter of two deceased South Vietnamese servicemen, the niece of 4 deceased South Vietnamese army men, and the daughter of the one surviving South Vietnamese Naval officer. I've had relatives starve to death as a result of the post '75 Viet regime. My blood is from and will always be for the democracy of my people. So if you want to threaten me with something that you fear most, then you need to first take a look in the mirror."
Lastly, I choose "Saigon Business District" because "Little Saigon" already exists in So Cal and the new name still has "Saigon" in it. So what's the problem?
Sorry so long. I had to vent.

[Andrea Nguyen]

In regular American vernacular, the "C" word means something else. For Viet-Americans, it might as well be just as terrible of an insult.

Marrying out of your race and ethnicity is commonly seen as 'selling out.' But are you suppose to marry someone just because he/she is Vietnamese? Are they apt to really have a better sense of who you are? Does that mean that a wife is suppose to look beautiful all the time, have children, cook, clean, and keep a profitable career going? Should the husband act bossy, drink cognac and 7-Up, and gamble with his friends every week? Those are awful, vague stereotypes that I never and still don't get.

The issue of marrying out is something my family debated when we were growing up. After dinner, we'd sit around the dinner table and get into heated discussions. It wasn't pretty.

We are five children in my family. Two are married to Viet people and the other three aren't. Each couple has its ups and downs. None of us are perfect, but each of us married someone we fell in love with.

[Diane]

You put it exactly, Andrea. Unfortunately, those who are so quick to judge and use insults as "communist" & "selling out" close themselves out to so many possibilities, exchange of ideas, and the bettering of themselves and their community. Ironically, there are many "sellouts" like myself who are spreading the love of my Vietnamese culture, food & traditions. These other people can spend their time fighting communism their way, and I will do the same by spreading and strengthening the joy and love of Viet-Nam. Maybe in this way, we can not only give Vietnamese something to think about, but to also introduce Americans to the positives of our culture, instead of the angry protests.
Andrea, thanks for giving us a forum to speak these ideas on your site alongside your fantastic Viet food & culture information.

[Andrea Nguyen]

It's human to want to maintain a pure genetic/cultural line in a family but in today's global and transitional world, that's hard to do.

How pure is Vietnamese food? What is authentic? How pure is any food? What matters is if it comes from the heart. That goes for food and anything else, for that matter.

So, what does that tell you about the hearts of people who are too quick to label someone a communist or sell out? They're just as mixed up as the rest of us!

[Ashley]

Andrea,
Some Vietnamese foods are more authentic than others, starting with the taste. For example, Vietnamese foods that have been westernized tend to be much sweeter. Authentic Vietnamese foods are foods that retain the flavors and ingredients of past generations. I found it odd that you asked, "What is authentic?" As a self-proclaimed expert on Vietnamese food, I think you ought to know. Your question about the authenticity of Vietnamese food sounded as if you want to seem philosophical. However, the authencity of any food from any culture is not a philosophical question. It either is or it isn't. You said, "What matters is if it comes from the heart." What?! When I buy Vietnamese cookbooks, I don't want cookbooks that just "come from the heart"; rather, I want the authors to make every conceivable effort to preserve the flavors and ingredients of generations past. I have no problem with anyone who wants to marry outside his race or ethnic group. I don't care about preserving race or ethnic purity. Food is a different matter entirely. The more authentic a food is, the more diversity there is in the world for others to enjoy. I don't want all foods from all cultures to taste the same or similar.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Ashley, authenticity is an issue that food people debate all the time. (I'm not just talking Vietnamese food writers.)It's a fleeting idea because how a cook prepares something, say pho, is yes, grounded in certain fundamentals that are generally agreed upon, but then varies according to the cook's local resources and personal taste. So a southern cook may prepare pho broth with daikon, and a northern cook would say that that is 'incorrect' (khong dung). But the southern cook learned that from her/his elder and that's how it's been prepared in their family for years. Who is more authentic? Indeed, as you point out, you need to look at past methods to arrive at some kind of position/basis point/point of reference.

Foodways change over time, and Vietnamese food, in particular, evolves very quickly with the diaspora as well as with people's inclination to create something new.

So how do you deal with it? I focus on true, honest, representative and typical approaches that speak to well-crafted food. The Vietnamese term, kheo, speaks to that exact notion. Kheo is often used to describe a good cook. When you prepare good food, it does come from the heart. I'm not saying some wishy washy thing, but rather the sincere desire to prepare things that comfort, nourish, satisfy, titillate. However, at the end of the day, the food has to stand up and say something -- like "I'm Vietnamese!" or "I'm Mexican!" And, most importantly, it has to taste good.

[Laura]

Not Vietnamese and not Californian, but personally I think resorting to calling someone a Communist (or a Fascist or a Nazi or...) is dirty and low ball. It pretty much makes me tune out whatever the speaker is saying.

I've been searching the web trying to find out the truth of "Little Saigon" problem and finally I found your group. I read many different posts but only your post gave me a different view to the problem

I don't like the vocal Vietnamese group who supports the "Little Saigon" name and never participated in their activities since most of their protest just make me sick. Nevertheless, I didn't hate them but rather feel empathy and sorry for them who must have been suffered from the war and probably lost their family members on the ways to search for freedom. As the the children I think we should not forget that.

To some of us the "Little" name is probably so pejorative, isolated and past relating. To them "Little Saigon" name is everything because it represents their identity as the boat people, the refugee," and mostly for the memory of the lost city (Saigon). In addition, those elderly people are old so it would be more difficult for them to integrate into this society. Would they deserve a motivation for their hard work? The question I would ask Council Madison is if she wanted to designate the name to honor them or she just wanted to promote her business development plan. Some webite stated that she wanted to honor the Vietnamese community (as she promised them during her campaign), some said she wanted to help the Real estate Vietnamese investors? Who know please tell me the truth.

The place is already named and irreversible (fact). It means someone won and someone lost. But, to me I'm not satisfied because I was pulled into this battle by daily news and the daily activities of the "Little Saigon" vocal group. Their activities makes the Vietnamese community looks fierce and chaos comparing to other communities, and I'm a member of that community. I want to know the truth. Some of you stated in the email that "their group is vocal group and minority" then there is no way they could collect enough vote to recall the Council.

But, if they can recall Madison it means you're wrong, right? I have another puzzle about Council Madison's decision. If she wanted to compromise the name why didn't she call the place as "Little Saigon Business District." then everyone has their name on the board. That is compromise not the other way. Is she thoughtful enough to represent us? I have some doubt about her icube and this is my opinion. Who is causing this controversial at the first place?

By the way, I'm admire and proud of Andrea's work too. Andrea, If you have time, could you please reply to this website http://www.vnfa.com/anews/0712_006.html
I think the author of this article seems to know a lot about the problem, and I'd like to know if his statement is the fact.

Thanks Andrea and others for providing this website (different voices). We're all Vietnamese regardless of background and genders, I'm always considered you as my sisters and brothers so please don't get too bitter to each others.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Welcome Anonymous! Thanks for your thoughtful comments -- and the link to John Vu's detailed posting. I read the entire thing and though he shows a certain level of bias, you can filter through that and get at how things developed since last summer. To read responses to John's comments, see the 8Asians blog link in the original posting at the top.

Here are my thoughts...

First, I had an inkling that something somewhere was related to the Vietnam Town shopping center that still has a billboard sign up that says something like "Coming in 2006." Well, nothing is really there. Is this like, if you build it they will come? If you name the area, they will come? I still say that the stretch of Story Road isn't very happening and that no one ever talks about the corridor at King and Tully, which is just a 5-minute drive away. Why are those businesses neglected?

And if there's a link between Madison Nguyen and the shopping center developers and the name, why haven't the newspapers and pro-Little Saigon group outed her connection with the shopping center? Proponents of the name have basically labeled her a liar and communist, and demanded a recall. Do you know how hard it is to recall someone? Very hard. There's a communication issue here and people need to make their case better.

Second, John Vu, who seems to be a rather observant person, doesn't articulate the reasoning behind the name "Little Saigon" in a manner that is convincing to me. Many of us were forced to abandon our homes and start over in America. The lives we once led in Vietnam were taken from us and we had to drastically change our circumstances.

But Saigon is not gone. What gets me is that when I go to book a flight to Saigon, I automatically type in HCMC. But that never works. Know what the official (and international) acronym for the Saigon airport is? No, it's not TSN for Tan Son Nhut. It's SGN for Saigon!

It always is ironic and comforting to know that. Plus, once you're there, everyone calls it Saigon. HCMC is a mouthful. Aack, so is TPHCMC which is the official name, TP standing for Thanh Pho, or City.

Third, the Latinos in the community have been too silent. Why don't we hear from them? They pay taxes and vote too. There's been a comment that they don't care one way or another. Has someone asked them? The Latino Chamber of Commerce chimed in, but what about the residents of District 7?

There seems to be a lot of communication problems here. If I were to lobby for "Little Saigon" I wouldn't explain it as an anti-Vietnamese communist regime protest move to outside audiences. Even within the community, that only plays well with a certain crowd.

Selecting a name just because it's a political protest move doesn't resonate well with the general public, that is, non-Vietnamese and second and third generation Viet-Americans born here. Those people are not likely to fully empathize with the emotions backing that name.

Remember, we live in America! Many people have no idea where Vietnam is. Two people recently told me that they didn't know what kind of government Vietnam currently has.

My communication strategy would be to say that San Jose has one of the most vibrant Vietnamese communities in the United States, and that the city deserves to link itself up with all the other Little Saigons in the country. The City of San Jose should recognize the contributions made by the Vietnamese community by officially putting it on the map along with the growing network of Little Saigon dotting the country. Vietnamese people are everywhere.

Yes, Madison Nguyen could have handled and finessed things a bit better early on. She unfortunately didn't. She's bright, ambitious, and very hard working. I hope she survives this ordeal.

[Von Griffing]

Wow, nothing like the power of words, in this case the nuance of words to evoke such strong emotions. I'm on Team Madison on this one. Saigon District sounds modern and progressive. Little Saigon just sounds stale and trite. I commend the protesters for being vocal and passionate about their cause but yeesh! couldn't they focus their energy on something more constructive and not so tedious?

As far as the comment regarding what is 'authentic' Vietnamese food, to me that is like asking what comes first, the chicken or the egg. There is just no right answer because it is so subjective. Even within my family, we can't even agree on what constitutes authentic 'canh chua ca', the Vietnamese hot and sour soup. My mother reels every time my sister put pineapple in it, whereas my sister would not cook it any other way. I bought your book recently from Amazon and love the recipe for dipping sauce for salad rolls, although I opted not use starch to thicken it since mine was plenty thick w/o it. I like the book a lot and think it is well worth the money.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Von, Thanks for your comments. Yes, sometimes the tuong sauce is plenty thick so no need for the cornstarch thickener, especially if you use peanut butter.

Love it that though we discuss public policy and community issues here that we always bring it back to food.

[Kristina]

Thanks Andrea for your post on this. Having moved from Southern California to Washington, DC- I had not heard this news.

As a young person involved in politics, I always looked around the room at political events and am saddened to see the small numbers of Asian Americans, especially women and Vietnamese in particular. However, when I heard about Madison's election as the first Vietnamese-American politician in CA, I was proud. And now to think that now people are trying to recall her over this is disheartening.

From what I read after I saw this post, it appears to me that Madison is doing an overall good job as a city council women, and has been tackling tough issues like gangs. Moreover, I think proposing Saigon Business District as a compromise was a move of a leader. She tried to make it work; and that is commendable.

I also wanted to say thank you to the other people here for the civil discourse on the comments. I went to bed extremely frustrated last night after reading the comments of people on the SJ Mercury article- shouting Communist epithets and making illogical arguments. Those insults are not only completely inappropriate, they do hurt. Like many people here, I have been called a sell-out, a race traitor, white washed, etc. by many Vietnamese-Americans. Why? Because when I ran for VP of UCLA, I did not run with the party mostly supported by the ethnic groups and because my running mate was white. And because after the election, I ended up dating my white running mate. Little do they know that my boyfriend absolutely loves Vietnamese culture and even makes pho from scratch (something I have never done!)

Sorry this was so long. I guess there was a lot of pent-up frustration from my own experience. Considering that Madison is dealing with this on such a greater level, I wish the best for her.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Kristina, the character attacks against Madison Nguyen that were posted on the SJ Mercury News comments on this issue reflect how you really can't please people! If you're on someone's 'hit' list, they'll find a way to frame you as a bad person. In Madison's case, the "communist" insult gets twisted in many directions. If people don't like what she's doing, they need to articulate their position in an effective (read: rational) manner that the public can understand.

Though I'm a Trojan, I'm delighted (and proud) to hear that an Asian American woman like you ran for office at UCLA. Don't anything public requires bridging many borders. Keep up the work.

[Zach]

I find your article a bit bias. First of all, I live in San Jose and I am actually one of the volunteers that work for the city to go out and poll the residence of District 7. From your article, you wrote "a small but very vocal group of Vietnamese Americans wants the name 'Little Saigon'"...this is in fact not correct. Yes, the vocal group that stands outside of City Hall to protest against Madison is small, but the number of people who prefers the name Little Saigon over Saigon Business District is a different story. If we are living a country of democracy, and we elect the name like how we elect our next president, then Little Saigon would've won. Fact of the matter is, the polls came back with 90% of the votes go for Little Saigon. Madison said she wanted a compromise, but it is not a compromise when one group holds the majority. But Madison chose to ignore the polls. Madison needs to remmeber who voted her into office....they are those so called "vocal" people who are proud of their roots and tried their hardest to have the first Vietnamese descent voted into office. Do you think the business people would care who wins the election?

Secondly, you said that you never liked the name Little Saigon. The word "Little" here is not to insult the Vietnamese people, rather, it is a reminder to all Vietnamese people of how we have lost the country and now we have to build our town again, our "Little Saigon" which will never be as big and prosperous as the original Saigon before 1975.

The chinese people have Chinatown everywhere they go and the Vietnamese people just want the same. We have a Little Saigon in OC, another one opening in Sacramento, it only makes sense to have one in San Jose....the second largest Vietnamese community.

With all politics aside, imagine this. It's a Saturday afternoon and you are talking to a friend. Do you rather say "Hey, wanna grab something to eat in Little Saigon" and your friend will know you are talking about Story Road, or do you want to say "Hey, wanna grab something to eat in Saigon Business District?"....I'm sorry, that's just tacky and a mouthful.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Zach, Why is it wrong to be a bit biased or even biased? People are entitled to have their opinions. It's part of the blogosphere. Given that, I'm delighted that you've joined the conversation.

I've not seen the raw data on the polls that the city of of San Jose took on the name. The figure of 90% has been mentioned on many occasions, but not the number of actual respondents and their breakdown in terms of race, age, and ethnicity.

Politicians are responsible to many constituent groups and it seems that the questions you're posing should be posed directly to Madison. Business people indeed care about who represents them because they contribute money to campaigns. Lobbying is a big business in this country.

Of course, Madison should be held accountable to her constituents, which include Viet and non-Viet people in District 7. She apparently made a promise to name the area as part of the campaign but the process has gone awry. Little has been mentioned about what the Latinos in District 7 think. What were the poll findings?

I still wonder, and no one has answered this question for me, why are the businesses around Tully and King not part of the area that's to be named? I don't get that. If it's just the Story corridor, then perhaps "Little" is indeed the appropriate name.

As for alternative names, San Jose is in Silicon Valley. Let's go back to the 10th century for some real Vietnamese pride -- when Vietnam was called Dai Viet. If the area was called Dai Viet District, you could say to your friends, "How about going to the DVD?"

[Teresa]

>Vietnam has a rich and long history of having kicked plenty of ass. Yes, we're relatively small in geographic size and population, but we've historically been major players.

Thank you for pointing this out. It was one of the most striking things to me as I started studying Vietnam more closely, before and while living there. Small and mighty, that's how I see it.

As for the naming controversy, I can't really say anything (being non-Viet and all), but I always think it's interesting how people get so wound up about things like this. We've had some major scenes up here in Portland due to re-naming major thoroughfares. Best of luck in getting it solved without much (more) pain to anyone.

[Andrea Nguyen]

Teresa -- Small and mighty. I like that. It's good to have discussion about this matter.

I think we had magnified this issue more than it should be. Many peoples stated that they wanted a name "Little Saigon" because it reminds us how we lost our country..Yeah, I am for that but it is necessarily for us to wasted that much energy to fight over a name. Let's think about this for a second. Does fighting over a name help put food on a table for poor/orphanage kid in Vietnam? Instead of going out there and protest for a shopping center name, shouldn't we be using that energy and focus on how to help those in need. Instead of going out there and protest over a name for a shopping center, shouldn't we be spending time with family and educate them on how to contribute to society. I think we should ask ourself first, what are we really fighting for before we go out and protest.